this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 14 minutes ago

I wrote the comment below on a thread that got locked while I was writing. TL;DR: Any bonehead who thinks that every single voter is politically-engaged and fully-informed, and that 6 MILLION of them all made a rational, reasoned decision to sit out the election is dumber than they look.

Oh, well, 18 months, what a slog! /s

Look, I've spent close to 30 years now detailing that this fucking insane "lesser evil" slide-to-the-right thing that Democrats were doing was going to end in evil. (That is, fascism.) Either the Democrats themselves would become what we feared, or the greater evil would happen to win.

Guess what? I was fucking wrong. I admit it now. I didn't guess that BOTH would happen simultaneously. It was bad enough more than 20 years ago when my Senator was the only vote against the PATRIOT ACT. It got worse when Obama decided to abolish due process and the rule of law. But by 2024, Democrats were straight up aiding and abetting the biggest war crime of all. Jesus jumpin' Christ on a pogo stick, how did we get to a place where that is the lesser evil?

Y'all couldn't vote for Nader in 1996, because "he can't win." Well, guess what, bucko, we had to change course somehow. He, or a spiritual successor, had to win, or we'd get... well, look around. It was clear even back then. We had to at least try something different, other than the lesser evil every time.

As they say, the best time to change was then, and the second-best time is now. But, no, Kamala Harris couldn't change her mind on genocide to win. No, sir! We have standards of evil to maintain, you see. Meanwhile, the billionaires weren't going away. The wealth inequality wasn't shrinking. Late-stage capitalism wasn't on track to make the serfs' lives better. The climate crisis would still loom. Charismatic fools like Rogan et al. are still young. So the choice in 2024 was fascism now, or fascism later. 2032, most likely, when the partisan pendulum would predictably swing the other way. 2028, possibly.

Is it any wonder that many voters felt overwhelmed, hopeless, defeated, and declined to participate, through the fabulous power of denial? Politics is depressing, the system is big, my vote is inconsequential... Y'know, denial, that power that we've all honed through a lifetime of practice—knowing the horrors of industrial meat production and still ordering a burger, knowing the role of CO~2~ in the climate disaster while waiting in the car at the drive-thru window for it, knowing the causes of cardiovascular disease and still eating it?

Knowing that someday, eventually, we have to fix our political system now that radicals have found its cheat codes, but still browbeating those disengaged voters that they are the ones responsible for this calamity. Yeah. Denial.

The same denial as 30 years ago. This election has been a long time coming. A year and a half? Get outta here.

[–] SoftestSapphic 16 points 2 hours ago (3 children)

This push to demonize the strawman protest voters is an ongoing propaganda campaign to cause poor people to infight.

[–] finitebanjo 15 points 2 hours ago (7 children)

Strawman?

6.27 Million more people voted for Biden in 2020 than Harris in 2024. That's not strawmanning, those fuckers stayed home and that is exactly why we are in the current situation.

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[–] Lemminary 1 points 1 hour ago

Well, no, because I've been asking myself the same question for a while now. And I don't have that agenda. Lol

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 hours ago

Or worse, to exacerbate racial tensions, is one possibility I fear.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 hours ago (9 children)

Honestly, the election was three months ago, and we have bigger fish to fry right now. My default assumption now is that anyone still trying to relitigate the Gaza voters is a Russian troll trying to sew division among the left.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Seems like this is more of a candidate problem than a voter problem - Joe and Kamala were very aggressive to anti-genocide voters and protestors - Gov Shapiro even wanted them arrested

Vote shaming will not get these voters to your side, but you know what will - candidates who will listen

[–] Lemminary 11 points 1 hour ago

Vote shaming will not get these voters to your side

This is beyond voter shaming, though. This is asking what the fuck were they thinking.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Emphatically correct based on everything I learn. I could never imagine changing my vote based on shaming and I don’t know why so many choose that tactic anyway, even after the thing is over.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

This is why the aftermath of the election has been particularly frustrating to me - a LOT of comments are just shitting on Muslim voters and kind of acting happy that trump is so terrible - often ‘liberal’ voters.

What the heck? We have to keep the doors open and politicians have to get them through the doors

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 hours ago

Same experience here. It’s deeply unsettling.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

How do you change voter behavior?

You don't. If you want someone to vote for you, you need to provide something that they want. The point of democracy is not to change the people to fit what the rulers want, it's to change the rules to what the people want. If you can't do that, the people don't want you.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 hours ago

It’s also to appeal to candidates , which doesn’t get talked about enough in the case of Gaza

Joe and Kamala did nothing to appeal to those voters, going so far as to cancel a Palestinian speaker at the DNC who agreed to have her entire speech vetted

so why arent we pointing the finger at them?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

I keep ruminating on this argument, and it gives me deeply split feelings.

On one hand I keep thinking, voters need to grow up. Voting is how the populace gets to engage in self governance, i.e. politics, and as the aphorism goes, Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable. Things that are easy aren't solved by politics, and the voters need to accept that you're often not going to get what you want and in governance you often have to settle for choosing the thing you hate the least.

On the other hand, I keep thinking I'm making the classic leftist mistake of demanding everyone should do what I think is right, because I am right, and then being frustrated when my rightness isn't blindingly obvious to everyone.

Like the lady says, It's like rain on your wedding day...

[–] SoftestSapphic 7 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Americans are impoverished and uneducated, Democrats are not, but they should be fucking smart enough to know you can't use big words or complicated ideas with poor, distrqcted, and uneducated people.

You force through policies that put money in their pockets, that tangibly improve their lives, or you piss them off even more and give them a minority to attack as a distraction from your lack of policy.

The Republicans understand this.

This is how you appeal to the impoverished and uneducated, and that will be the majority of the American voting population until a couple decades after we offer free education

[–] very_well_lost 10 points 3 hours ago (9 children)

To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld: You don't run for office with the electorate you want, you run for office with the electorate you have.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago

Well that's a lie, with voter suppression and gerrymandering you can have your dream electorate!

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