this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2025
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Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. A showerthought should offer a unique perspective on an ordinary part of life.

Rules

  1. All posts must be showerthoughts
  2. The entire showerthought must be in the title
  3. Avoid politics
    • 3.1) NEW RULE as of 5 Nov 2024, trying it out
    • 3.2) Political posts often end up being circle jerks (not offering unique perspective) or enflaming (too much work for mods).
    • 3.3) Try c/politicaldiscussion, volunteer as a mod here, or start your own community.
  4. Posts must be original/unique
  5. Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct

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[–] grue 31 points 2 days ago (3 children)

As a newly-appointed moderator myself, I think "customer service representatives curating a space" is going a little too far. I see myself more as a janitor taking out the trash while doing my best to leave all the art alone, whether I like it or not.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Stay Gold ponyboy, stay Gold

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[–] dohpaz42 45 points 2 days ago (4 children)

In my personal experience, the people I see posting to [email protected] deserved the actions the mods took, and are looking to whine to someone.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 25 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It's a very mixed bag, dependently largely on the personal views of the moderators at-large relative to the speakers. For the most part, the mods at .world seem egalitarian and amicable to liberalish dissenting views. We haven't seen a slew of censorship/bannings over arguments about veganism or Israel/Palestine or capitalism vs socialism.

But the "y'all deserve to get banned" mentality is largely tied up in the idea that their ideas are bad for being outside the spectrum of your allowable discourse. Meanwhile, a community like .ml or Truth Social doing a censorship/ban on content is morally repugnant because its limiting conversations that are inside the spectrum of your allowable discourse.

The technical mechanics of these communities are the same, everyone's just arguing where the lines should be drawn.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Not to be that guy, but exactly what kind of conversation are we supposed to have with fascists and people openly calling for an end to both your and my liberties?

Ideas are debatable, but there's no debating that we all deserve to live and to exist. But I've ever only encountered far too many people from the right openly calling for the opposite of that. My own existence to them is offensive and worthy of murder. I want to have no conversation with such people, but you seem to be willing to tolerate that for the sake of "just having a conversation".

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 1 points 1 day ago

what kind of conversation are we supposed to have with fascists and people openly calling for an end to both your and my liberties?

Depends heavily on who you're dealing with. Obviously, very hard to talk to a cop in the middle of cracking your skull open. But a lot of Americans are polarized into fascism through mass media and other forms of propaganda. You have to talk to them like you'd talk to anyone else. And you have to get them disconnected from the fascist media stream as best you can.

It's less about a specific conversation and more about building trust relative to their mass media of choice. No single thing you say is going to outweigh a daily dose of right wing agitprop. So divorcing people from that mass media has to be the first step, either by keying them in on how and why the network is uncomfortable to listen to or by engaging them with alternatives.

there’s no debating that we all deserve to live and to exist.

The fascist theory is, at it's heart, that egalitarian coexistence is impossible. You are in a tribal war of domination and you either win or you die.

The counter has to be evidence to the contrary. Introducing friends and family to people who are "the enemy" but are clearly no threat. Reminding them of who they're being asked to reject.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No, they're usually just power tripping. When certain people get even a modicum of power, real or imagined, they become full-on dictators at superluminal velocities. There's some crossover with powerless people seeking revenge on the world at large (or any piece of it) for their misfortune or flights against them, real or imagined. I don't have any data on the ratios but my gut instinct wild-ass guess is that at least 25-33% fall into the tinpot tyrant category.

[–] Whats_your_reasoning 4 points 2 days ago

I imagine that phenomenon is similar to how super sheltered kids become the wildest teenagers/young adults (whichever age they are when they first get a taste of freedom.) Like how people with newfound freedom often party hard with it, people who've never been in a position of power before can easily take their new authority too far.

Totally not excusing it. It's not some inevitable "human nature" thing. There are good parents, teachers, and others in positions of authority that take their responsibility to others seriously. They're the ones that allow some modicum of function in society.

But those who seek power for its own sake are going to be ruthless about it. Then once someone has power, it's extremely difficult for them to let it go.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

As a head CSR for my job : no mod I've ever seen is anything close to providing customer service and it's hilarious that you'd even think that in passing

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

You see us as customers, by your own words. So much for community. Trying to misplace and simplify the situation using this metaphor this way is basically also another way of justifying not even ostracization, but autocracies as communities.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Would you agree that banning/censoring is a form of suppression rather than oppression?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

[email protected] definitely has some cases of power tripping

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I agree with you.

But can we let the Karen thing go now? It's been long enough

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Sorry to all the lovely people I've met named karen during my life, no.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

If you trust this person to tell you, and everybody else here, how to speak, then either your speech is worthless to you or this conversation is worthless to you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

you trust this person to tell you... how to speak

We got a lot of content and vibe modding going on.

This is a classic suppression and steering tactic.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Do you think it's a conscious plan to mindcontrol everybody or is it just a basement dweller treating his mod powers like the ultimate downvote?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Both... And sometimes together. Useful idiot is the best tool for any threat actor.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

here, how to speak then

You missed a closing delimiter on the subclause. Is that still acceptable speech for you?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Actually it ain't. Good, catch

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[–] jimmydoreisalefty 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

“The ultimate test of a society’s freedom is not how it treats its good, obedient, compliant citizens; it’s how it treats its dissidents.” - Glenn Greenwald

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[–] EleventhHour 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Well, this is how they should operate…

But these volunteers also require that you understand they are human beings too.* and, like all humans, they sometimes make mistakes.

Please be patient, especially during busy times of the year.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

And like many human beings, they often refuse to admit their mistakes out of pride and anger.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (7 children)

They're volunteers providing a public service for free around here, not employees.

Probably.

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[–] j4k3 8 points 2 days ago (9 children)

Communities are not owned by moderators. They are built by those that participate. The primary fallacy I see is the idea that anyone can start a different community and that size and momentum are meaningless. That is simply not the case.

An authoritarian or very active mod, in any community with public participation is actively abusing those users when they act in opposition to the interests of the community. A visible mod is a bad mod. The job of mod is as a janitor acting in the interests of the community. If you care about authority or steering, you shouldn't be a mod or admin.

Nothing about being a mod is hard. You don't need to read every post or comment. All you do is setup the basic guidelines and trust the community to vote and flag bad stuff. The community will always flag the bad stuff. The only part that really matters is that you set yourself aside and really look into any flagged issue while giving the benefit of the doubt in absolutely every possible way one can imagine while never allowing bigotry type abuse. This is how to be a good mod, to be an invisible mod. The job is only to herd bad bots and sort the flags from others.

[–] radix 15 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Nothing about being a mod is hard.

Would you like to play a game?

https://trustandsafety.fun/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's not that hard if you prioritize being objective and fair. Though maybe I'm just based.

[–] grue 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Man, I'm only at the "Company Ethos" question (at the very beginning) and I already don't like the choices it's giving me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

That's by design

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Cute game

Suddenly ended when one of my mods mislabeled 1 post despite basically all of my stats being in the green

So, you know, totally realistic and all

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[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

Moderation plays a big part in shaping the community. Are community guidlines not set by the mods? If there are people participating not following the guidlines they get squelched because they weren't following the rules agreed to by everyone participating in that community.

[–] j4k3 4 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Guidelines are not rigid. The Hippocrates aphorism "first, do no harm" is key in principal and practice. A visible mod is always a bad mod.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I just try and make a percentage of my post anti corporate.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

I think for the most part they're trying to protect themselves, their communities and their servers.

That said, I left world for other places and found some of the stuff that was defederated to be interesting and provide a little balance.

There's certainly nothing going on here even close to the crap that was going on at Reddit.

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