this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024
81 points (74.5% liked)

Progressive Politics

1190 readers
581 users here now

Welcome to Progressive Politics! A place for news updates and political discussion from a left perspective. Conservatives and centrists are welcome just try and keep it civil :)

(Sidebar still a work in progress post recommendations if you have them such as reading lists)

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
TokenBoomer
81
US election 2024: Greta Thunberg refuses to endorse either candidate in damning post (www.indy100.com)
submitted 1 month ago by TokenBoomer to c/progressivepolitics
47 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Thunberg added that “no matter” which one of them wins, America “will still be an imperialist, hyper-capitalist world power that will ultimately continue to lead the world further into a racist, unequal world with an ever increasingly escalating climate and environmental emergency”.

top 47 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That's how a lot are spinning this, and she doesn't endorse anyone (not even third party) because she's pointing to the bigger picture. However, I do think she's subtly weighing the options with the line "With this in mind, my main message to Americans is to remember that you cannot only settle for the least worst option." Read it carefully, along with what follows it about not quitting after a vote.

Vote third party as a message if it makes you feel better, but just like those voting for Harris - you better not stop there.

[–] GraniteM 25 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Message voting in action:

[–] hark 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Now show the number of non-voters.

[–] GraniteM 2 points 1 month ago

Turnout was only 54.2% nationally; not sure if that number is significantly higher or lower for Florida in particular.

...conversely...

There's no need! Their opinions matter even less than third party voters!

[–] kreskin 1 points 1 month ago

Gore shouldnt have picked Lieberman. That was nuts.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Damn! If only Al Gore had put more effort into campaigning in Florida, or if the Supreme Court didn't put their fingers on the scale.

Also I noticed you didn't throw out the Libertarian party numbers or Reform Party numbers...

[–] WaxedWookie 29 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You don't need the permission of a European kid to vote for the least shit option for your government and kick the can of fascism a little further down the road. The recent is close - the outcomes delivered by each candidate aren't - you shouldn't need encouragement to vote accordingly.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

nothing to kick down the road, fascism is already here.

[–] WaxedWookie -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They're not currently in power. I'd like to keep it that way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

they are lol. why else would they be killing brown people inside your country and abroad?

and imposing sanctions and financial ruin everywhere...

or not letting you have healthcare...

[–] WaxedWookie 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

sigh

What definition of fascism are you using? It sure as shit isn't the dictionary or Eco's - words have meaning.

That aside, there are 2 possible outcomes for this election - that's a simple, mathematical reality. If you care about brown people, which of those two options will cause the death and suffering of far more of those people?

...but rather than lift a finger to actually help those you claim to care about, you're going to throw them under the bus and empower the worse option because you can't swallow your pride and vote for the lesser of two evils. An I right in thinking you'll risk those peoples' lives so that you can virtue signal with a Green vote?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

wait, instilling global-level racism is not fascism? what about economically leashing the entirety of the third world for being "inferior entrepeneurs" or some bullshit? the US today is nazi germany gone wrong (and subtle).

there is one possible outcome for this election: your country keeps raining bombs in the middle east and keeping the rest of us down. oh, and fascism keeps expanding regardless of your inaction about it. you are not getting healthcare, or real wealth redistribution, or housing reform, or anything of that sort either. big sigh.

also in what basis do you say i dont lift a finger to help my people, again? i missed that part.

[–] WaxedWookie 1 points 1 month ago

wait, instilling global-level racism is not fascism?

No. Fascism is fascism. This exact flavor of stupidity/dishonesty is why I asked where you get your nonsense definition. You don't need me to define fascism - just take the five minutes to pick up your preferred dictionary or even better, Umberto Eco's widely respected definition and educate yourself.

there is one possible outcome for this election

No. There are two (bad) possible outcomes that vary massively in the scale of death and suffering that they'll lead to. To draw and argue a false equivalence is not only to dismiss that easily preventable death and suffering - it's to advocate for it. Also, not relevant, but not my country.

If you're not American, you can't vote, but where you're failing to lift a finger is that you refuse to ease off your meaningless virtue signalling bullshit around the election a massive number of lives are at stake.

Pull your fucking head in and stop enabling the deaths of who knows how many people you dishonestly claim to care about as you weaponise their suffering for nothing more than your ego.

Absolutely disgraceful.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)

She's right, but she also doesn't have US citizenship.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't think she was planning to vote.

[–] eskimofry 13 points 1 month ago

Yeah but U.S. elections affect more than U.S citizens.

[–] Bruncvik 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Breaking: I also refuse to endorse either candidate. That's because I'm not American, and I know shite about American politics. I do trust, however, that Americans can make up their minds without any foreigners telling them what to do.

[–] Dasus 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm not American, and I know shite about American politics.

You can't suss out which of the candidates is more competent?

Mkay.

Hopefully you don't have a driving licence.

[–] Bruncvik -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Believe it or not, but the US is not the centre of the universe. I genuinely have no idea what policies either candidate is proposing, and the occasional descriptions such as "literal Nazi" or "real Antichrist" aren't really informative. I'm much more interested in which of my local parties would most likely decrease housimg prices, build better public transport infrastructure or finance more equitable social welfare support. Neither US candidate will have any effect on those, apart from perhaps a few more American immigrants on our shores. So, I really don't feel competent to speak about American politics, and I doubt Greta is any more competent. It would be an insult to Americans to presume that they need foreigners to tell them how to vote.

[–] Dasus 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You're seriously suggesting that you live in a place where you don't get news from what Trump is like, all the things he's done?

I'm not American either, buddy, but like you, we're both on the internet. Pretending you live in some news blackout or haven't the werewithall to understand that a semi-demented fascist felon reality-TV star fraudster who's literally promising dictatorship isn't worse than a pretty fucking normal career politician? That's really weird man.

Would you disagree that Trump winning the US presidency would have detrimental global effects? "I wouldn't know, I can't know, how would I know."

You're on Lemmy and for the next few days at least any non-curated feed is going to be filled with US politics. Why would you pretend to be so wholly ignorant of them?

I'd like to take a moment to remind you that the article is about Greta Thundberg just not endorsing either candidate. She's Swedish. She can have an opinion on the election, people are allowed opinions. Yes, even young girls. But like you, she's refusing to endorse a candidate, as she's not American?

My opinion is that it's very weird to pretend to be so mediailliterate that you don't know what Donald Trump is like.

[–] Bruncvik 0 points 1 month ago

You are absolutely correct that I'm seeing the news, and the social media posts. I don't feel either offer an accurate representation of the candidates. The legacy media seems to be focusing on the campaigns, not the actual proposed policies of the candidates (apart of some "sky is falling" clickbaits). Social media is pure hyperbole: Trump wears makeup and his running mate an eyeliner; Harris has a weird laugh, etc.

Within context of my voting, I make the effort to explore the parties' previous performance, and read their election manifestos. I didn't actually bother to find the election manifestos of the two main candidates, so I don't feel that I'm well informed to make a good voting decision. I can go by the candidates' previous record. When Trump was President, the sky didn't fall, his presidency didn't affect things in my country, just some people were better off and some worse off. When Harris was the VP, same thing applied. Much of criticism towards Trump, especially his mental capacity, can be applied to the current Biden presidency, and I somehow fail to see anything catastrophic happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some fundamental differences between the proposed policies of Trump and Harris. However, I can't see them when casually perusing both legacy news and social media. Or, better to say, I don't feel I can trust either. To get an accurate picture, I'd need to do proper research, and I can't be arsed with that. I don't think either candidate's win will affect me significantly enough to force me to do my research and campaign on-line for one or the other.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

They're really no different from that perspective for us either. Unfortunately trump is a literal fascist and dnc knows it. Unfortunately fascism and abortion are driving this election.

Thankfully im in a state where i can say fuck you to both candidates and let my critters know they're next if they dont shape up.

  • harris repeatedly attempted to gaslight the American people over biden's mental health.
  • harris has continued to gaslight americans over the activities of israel and labelling them as self defense. Hamas has agreed to repeated cease fire agreements with the release of hostages. Only bibi is the problem and we continue to support him and passively label the continued escalation of violence as self defense while simultaneously violating our own laws on weapon sales.
  • harris has refused to back pro labor initiatives like committing to ms khan at the FTC, and has no pro labor initiatives on the her platform.
  • harris has willing silenced pro Palestine violences in general and on her campaign trail. While trying to say she's comfortable with them protesting and providing no path forward for their voices to be heard by the wider Democrat base through her campaign.
  • harris was the corporate choice of a running mate for biden instead of more progressive candidates such as warren. And it shows in her absolute trash set of policies.
  • harris has repeatedly lied about what the deaths of hamas leaders mean. Israel targetted the leaders most willing to commit to a ceasefire first. There will be no peace while netanyahu is running israel and America continues support.
  • Harris has repeatedly labelled herself as the law and order candidate while simultaneously committed to continuing to violate American laws.
  • Harris' support of lgbt+ is purely 'legal' her own words. She doesnt believe they should have be able to make their own medical decisions. I doubt she'll promote anything pro lgbt+ during her tenure she just wont regress it.

Shes absolutely disgusting as a candidate and if it wasn't for trump being orders of magnitude worse, and the intentional lack of a primary she'd be no where near winning the white house. And i suspect we'll see another election cycle without a primary as a result of her being the incumbent.

Its absolutely horrifying. 🦅😮‍💨

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

well said. i will add that harris got a total of 187 votes in the primaries and was still selected over warren with 3 million because she is a pro-corpo & pro-israeli hack. she has always been a two faced flip-flopper but still failed upward in politics. dnc has become so toxic that they are trivialising genocide and running a disgraceful smear campaign on stein.

There will be no peace while netanyahu is running israel and America continues support.

given the state of things its clear that parasite netanhayu is running both israel and america via aipac. its only becoming worse every year, they tank any progressive campaign with massive funding & propaganda and play both sides.

[–] RizzRustbolt 6 points 1 month ago

Well... maybe. But I still have to live here.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I do wonder if first past the post is something she knows about.

Not a good stance from her, though lots about the general vibe is right.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

First past the post argument only applies in states where the races are competitive. It doesnt apply in deep red/blue. If 15% of your population can swing 3rd partywith no change in results it no longer applies.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Ok

[–] Atrichum 5 points 1 month ago

What a fucking fool

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Sorry but this is just batshit crazy.

Make a list of the world's 500 most greenhouse gas producing companies. Ask the board of each of them who Greta should endorse and they would unanimously say that she should make a statement refusing to endorse either.

It doesn't take much intelligence to realise that the least worst option is the best option, particularly when the people voting for the worst option will not be dissuaded.

I realise that most lemmy users revere Greta like the morning sun, but I'm supremely confident that if Trump wins a lot of "message voters" and their influencers will feel pretty silly in a year or so.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Smart Girl.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

So anyways, I started ~~blastin'~~ votin'.

[–] AbouBenAdhem 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I think a lot of the political issues in the US and similar countries stem from misunderstanding elections as a type of message-sending, rather than collective decision-making.

But endorsements, protests, and poll responses are genuinely types of message-sending, and there's nothing inconsistent about protesting or denouncing a candidate while still voting for them in an election in which the outcome is contingent on the presence of other candidates and other voters. So the fault—if any—lies not with Thunberg, but with voters who misapply her message as a voting strategy.

[–] febra -4 points 1 month ago

Understandable. Both candidates are a face of the same US imperialist coin to people living outside the US. Might be different for those living in the US though.