I think the last two paragraphs in the body of this post are the real issue here, not that he was just using AI to create CSAM.
this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
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Right? Feels like this is being tacked on as a shot at AI. Otherwise nobody is harmed except the guy. Pedos are ick, but if harmless then why punish? I don't think anyone should have to take a fall because others think their desires are gross.
Because they are using images of real children.
I agree, but if there were some way to create CSAM without using real children (I'm not sure how you would train such an AI model), it would probably be worth seeing if that did anything to make pedophiles less likely to act out on their desires.
Because my god, we need to figure out something.
I mean trying to help them get treatment instead of going all pod-people on anyone showing even the possibility of being attracted to kids would be helpful.
I've been saying that for ages. Obviously we don't want to enable any pedophiles to do anything horrific to children, but we're at a state right now where if you have those urges to begin with, you're basically already told to accept that you're an incurable monster. So why not act on the urges?
Somehow we need to get through to such people that they need to get help before they do anything terrible. I'm not sure how to do that in the current climate though.
The way AI models work, you don't have to train it on the thing you want it to do, you can ask it to combine the things it knows about. Take any of the meme loras for example, like pepe punch or patcha.
So literally any model that can generate pictures of naked adults and clothed children - which is to say almost all of them - is going to be at least somewhat competent in creating CP unless those prompts are being actively censored and blocked.
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Train it to depict humans that look like anime characters that are ~~definitely 18 or older~~ immortal dragons that are taking on the bodies of young human beings
Disclaimer
I am not condoning, endorsing, or suggesting this
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I think this was a crime because he modified images of actual kids. If the images were 100% AI (not of real people) I'm not sure on what basis that would be considered a crime, no more than a handmade drawing of a nude minor drawn from imagination.
Any sexual representation of a child is illegal in the UK whether it looks real or not. In fact I believe it doesn't need to even be a child, it's a illegal if a reasonable person would believe it was depicting a child. This came up when adults who were into age play got into trouble distributing their images because it looked convincingly underage.
Wait so even if the subjects are adults in costume its illegal? Fuck man, school uniforms is a whole genre of porn.
It's not about reducing harm to children, it's about moral superiority.
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And I suppose we can rely on the courts to know sexual when they see it, so people don't get in trouble for taking pictures of cherubs at the Louvre.
Thanks for clarifying, I didn't know that. Seems like a bit of an overreach to me, but I suppose in this particular case it's best to err on the side of caution.
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In the US federally you might be able to get away with creating the images for yourself if they are 100% fictional, but the guy also was doing commission work. The moment you start transmitting the images (and selling would involve that) it becomes very very illegal.
I don't really think anything is 100% AI. I also don't really believe in the concept of thought being a crime and extend personally kept data to that realm.
The fuck? Nothing about generating and distributing CSAM material is harmless, and especially if images of real children are being used to generate it.
Okay. Who is harmed and how?
Would it harm you to have identifiable nude photos of you available for download on the internet?
Would it harm you to have identifiable nude photos of you being used to train AI so that it can create more nude images that are "inspired" by your nude images?
Would you be happy to upload your children's nude photos so that people on the internet can share them and masturbate to them? Would you be harmed if your parents had done that with your images?
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There's the fact that the images he was creating were pictures of real kids. Deep fake porn is already creepy enough, add in that it was csam....
Yeah, that changes it a bit - that definitely has more of a creep factor. I still question if it's really the kind of thing that should land you in jail for a long time.
Good riddance. Now go after the fucks that bought this shit from him.
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Most AI porn images looks quite underage to me, to be completely frank. :/
At least with a human being it’s a matter of factuality whether or not they’re over 18. But with AI it’s unverifiable, especially considering some models have already been trained on CSEM.
Once someone has that model locally, do they technically possess CSEM, even unknowingly? Do they only possess it if they try to make the AI make it? Seems like something someone in charge should have thought about in a legally binding way before dumping the internet into an image generator!
In this case he used pictures from actual children and transformed them into CSAM using AI. So there's no question about the age, and there are real victims, too.
Oh yeah, this dude without a question is guilty and a pedo. I meant more that ‘out of the box’ models may still produce material that looks really CSEM adjacent, and you have no way of telling whether or not it used CSEM to generate the image if the whole dataset is poisoned by actual CSEM being included.
Bound to be tested in court sooner or later. As far as I understand it one is "in possession" if they have access to a set of steps or procedures that would recover an image. So this prevents offenders from hiding behind the fact their images were compressed in a zip file or something. They don't have a literal offending image, but they possess it in a form that they can transform.
What would need to be tested is that AI generators are coming up with novel images rather than retrieving existing ones. It seems like common sense but the law is quite pedantic. The more significant issue is that generators don't need to be trained on csem to come up with it. So proving someone had it with the intent of producing it would always be hard. Even generators trained on illegal material I'm not sure it would be straight forward to prove that someone knew what it was capable of.
I assume any CSEM ingested into these models is absolutely swamped by the massive amount of adult porn that's much more easily available. A handful of images aren't going to drive model output in datasets of the scale of the image generation models. Maybe there are keywords that could drill down to be more associated with the child porn, but a lot of "young" type keywords are already plentifully applied to adults, and I imagine accidental child porn ingests are much less likely to be as conveniently labeled.
So maybe you can figure out how to get it to produce child porn, but it probably won't just randomly produce it for an innocent porn prompt.
The actual issue is that models who are trained on porn, or even just nudity, and simultaneously trained on perfectly innocent pictures of children will be able to produce at least an approximation of CSAM if you know what you're doing.
More recent commercial foundation models are absolutely neutered when it comes to nudity and, or at least that's the hypothesis, that's why so they're godawful at anatomy. Which is why upcoming community models are going to go the way of include the porn but not include any pictures of any child in any situation.
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I'm not the person to clear up this legal grey area. I just think that AI porn often has these incredibly young faces which makes the enjoyers of that porn extra creepy.
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I have not personally explored AI porn, but as someone with experience in machine learning and accidental biases that's not very surprising to me.
On top the of the general societal bias towards youth for "beauty" related roles, smoother and less-featured faces (that in general look younger) are closer to an average face so defaulting to that gets a bit of training boost (when in doubt, target the mean). It's probably also not helped by youth-related porn keywords (teen, daughter, young) that further associate other porn prompts (even ones not about youth) with non-porn images of underage women that also have those keywords.
Most real porn has women who look like kids to me.
Even the so-called MILFs look about 15 years younger than me and I'm 47.
You have to get into "mature" and shit to see women my age.
I'm not into young women. I'm just not. It looks like they're fucking a high schooler and it's icky to me.
And then there's all the schoolgirl and incest or incest-adjacent shit. "Playing with my stepdad." No. Just no.
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Most AI porn I've seen looks like Eldritch abominations, but then I haven't seen any for a while so maybe it's improved
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Daz3d ? It's a "modelling" SW, there's no AI in it... https://www.daz3d.com/
"a computer program with an ai function" what if he just used Windows, it has an ai function
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