this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024

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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by [email protected] to c/tenforward

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I realize the universal translator is just a hand-wave to avoid the "Aliens Speaking English" trope, but there are at least some basic rules established for it:

When it translates, it will use the closest approximation in the database, it can learn as it hears more of a new language, it's apparently a neural implant (at least with Ferengi), and probably a few more that I'm missing.

Does it keep the original speaker's voice, tone, inflection, and in this case, melody? Does Kira hear Vic singing in perfect Bajoran or is the universal translator belting out Frank Sinatra in Lwaxana's voice? Do the lyrics still make sense with the computer translation?

I very rarely complain about the UT, and I enjoy the Vic Fontaine component, but I just have a hard time combing the two lol.

Sometimes I wish they would have gone with a "standard" language like Space Esperanto that just sounds to the audience like English rather than the UT.

Update: I completely forgot Federation Standard existed, and that's probably the language Vic is using, and Kira is very likely fluent due to her time spent on DS9. It's kind of a retcon since that wasn't mentioned until DIS, but I can live with it.

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[–] ummthatguy 27 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't disagree with the criticism of translating and somehow meshing interplanetary context to music/literature. However, there's a point where you gotta roll with the plot magic. Don't ask how the restrooms work. If you haven't used the 3 seashells before, I can't help you.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Truth, lol. And I do choose the weirdest hills to nitpick and die on 😆

Kira does just kind of smile and nod as he's serenading her and Odo, so I'm gonna believe she just heard a pleasant voice/melody in her direction and was being polite.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Space Esperanto

That could be the case here. Vic may be singing in Federation Standard (aka English) and Kira /Odo have learned it after hanging out with the Federation for the last six to seven years. Considering their backgrounds as people who lived in multi-lingual societies (from the Occupation), it wouldn't be the strangest thing for them to pick up a new language with some off screen effort over the years.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Vic may be singing in Federation Standard (aka English)

Wait a second.... You're telling me that in the future there's peace on Earth and we don't need for money or food or anything and the standard language is (effectively) English? And the French are ok with that? GTFO. 😂

[–] thessnake03 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The "French" aka Jean Luc Picard? He's rather British for a Frenchman. Maybe WW3 had some other consequences.

[–] ummthatguy 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Interesting point. His family has that longstanding vineyard that produces purportedly non-radioactive, if tart, wine.

[–] AceBonobo 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Worf wouldn't know it's called wine?

[–] ummthatguy 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One of the lesser moments of weak writing made painfully present throughout Star Trek: Picard. That being said, it's part of a great ongoing joke about Château Picard being a terrible wine.

[–] AceBonobo 6 points 2 months ago

I had no idea it was a terrible wine. Not sure how I feel about that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

He may know Picard calls it wine, but he may not be able to call it that himself because the running joke is Chateau Picard wine is terrible.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Oh, I don't doubt that many of the characters are polyglots; Kira would definitely be likely to be fluent in multiple languages for all the reasons you said. Perhaps that is the case here specifically, and Vic is singing in Federation Standard.

I also forgot that Federation Standard existed. That's on me 🤦‍♂️

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

No worries. I think you have a valid point and it could also be a weird UT thing going on where Vic's words are translated idiomatically and not literally.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Federation Standard is a New Trek creation, so maybe the rules wouldn’t work. Doubt anyone living in a non-Federation world would bother learning it.

Secondly, in “The 37’s”, the cryogenically frozen humans from the 1930s each hear people speaking their native language due to the universal translator.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Doubt anyone living in a non-Federation world would bother learning it.

Right. I guess the UT would still be needed, but only for edge cases. After being reminded it existed, I looked it up. Pike mentions he's surprised the Terralysians speak it. I'm suspending disbelief with Vic being a hologram (and could have been programmed to speak it) and Kira and Odo picking it up over the course of 7 years on DS9.

“The 37’s” ... each hear people speaking their native language due to the universal translator.

That part I can accept at face value since it's just speaking. Now if Amelia Earhart had broken out into some anachronistic Pat Benatar, I'd have had several further questions lol.

[–] Blue_Morpho 7 points 2 months ago

Did someone say Space Esperanto?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The UT can also tell somehow when the speaker doesn't want their words translated. Anytime Worf says something in Klingon, or any Vulcans talk about their culture, they're able to say their words as they normally would.

It must have some kind of ability to translate meaning, not just words. That's probably why in Lower Decks it's able to translate some Tamarian now. Once they started working with the Federation, we were able to teach the UT some context for their metaphors.

The real question is, when Quark uses a human idiom, is he actually saying that, or is it a translation of a similar Ferengi phrase?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah, I always wondered how explicit Klingon made it through the UT unchanged, lol.

when Quark uses a human idiom, is he actually saying that, or is it a translation of a similar Ferengi phrase?

Most characters, I'd guess it was massaged through the UT. With Quark, though, it could probably go either way. He's frequently interacting with a diverse crowd, so he probably is pretty fluent or at least capable in an array of languages. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he was using the idioms directly rather than having Ferengi phrases translated.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Its mental