this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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[–] [email protected] 82 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I used to be very opposed to deer hunting. Until I took a biology course and there was some discussion about how humans have eliminated, or nearly eliminated all their natural predators in the United States.

The way their population ends up being controlled in the absence of those predators is disease, famine, and cars. Unless we hunt them sufficiently in areas where wolves in particular have been eliminated.

If you are hunting and wasting the resources of an animal you've culled, it's absolutely unethical. But if you're using all of the resources you can provide by the animal, and you're hunting in an area where the only natural population control mechanisms are famine and disease, I'd argue that's the most ethical way you can hunt in a modern society.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Also organizations like hunting lodges put a lot of effort and money into wildlife conservation and wilderness preservation. There's a lot of natural habitat that is protected today specifically because of the work of groups of hunters. Without them that land would have been used for something else. It's obviously self-interested, but it benefits more than just them.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Also, due to the Pittman-Robertson Act, taxes from hunting and fishing equipment and licenses are earmarked for wildlife conservation. Which is a good thing, but potentially becoming a problem as fewer people in younger generations are hunters, meaning less funding for conservation

[–] Alwaysnownevernotme 7 points 2 months ago

I think if factory farming were more stringently regulated a lot more people would hunt than buy a $500 steak.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago

I agree but I do have a little issue with the "wasting resources" part, that's a very anthropocentric view to take. There's an entire ecosystem of organisms that would love to use those resources, and in many cases leaving the carcass behind is better for that system than taking it away and depleting it of that biomass. There's obviously a lot of "ifs" involved but I wouldn't generalise by saying that because a human didn't get to eat it the resource was "wasted".

It's unfortunate that our ancestors have left us with this kind of ecological trolley problem, where in order to keep the system balanced and prevent collapse we're obligated to go out and kill a lot of creatures, but such is the world we've inherited.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Chronic Wasting Disease is a particularly scary prion disease that is highly dependent on deer population density.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm guessing farmed meat isn't on the list, because adding it becomes an anchor that throws everything else off. It's easily more brutal than a circus but has single-digit non-participation, and people don't want to look inconsistent.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wonder now, what happens to the results if you put the question about factory farming at either the beginning or the very end?

My guess is that when at the beginning, the percentages would shift significantly into the acceptable range because of the not wanting to look inconsistent.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Oh bother I can't remember who did the study, but Earthling Ed in his book talks about it, whereby participants were either served meat or not during questions regarding diet, and those who were eating meat became almost obtusely against vegan diets. I tried searching for it just now but can't think of the right keywords to find it.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

I used to be cool with the idea of elephant riding, seemed cool and it’s not like such a big animal is even going to notice a human on its shoulders. Then I was at a ren fair or something like one that had an elephant to ride. When we got in line for it I saw just what they do to get an elephant to walk around. I think you have to be a real piece of shit to poke an animal with a sharp stick all day for a job.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

They're also quite intelligent and are likely to be extremely aware of their captive situation. It's basically slavery.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

The MD renn fest had an elephant.

There was a divide between the folks who thought “ohhhh it fine” and the rest of us who thought “elephants don’t live in Maryland and definitely don’t give rides to screaming children, willingly”

The MD renn fest elephant was also used as Trump advertising at other events, which did NOT help the communities view here in MD.

There was a noticeable boycott until they stopped abusing the elephants at the MD renn fest.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I went to an elephant sanctuary in Thailand. They explained that riding elephants is incredibly stressful for the elephant's back, and that in order to train them to obey, torture is usually involved.

I'm against zoos as well. I know some do good work with rehabilitation and such (and we should support them), but a lot just capture animals for our enjoyment. Even if they're not explicitly mistreated, it's pretty cruel to just keep them in a cage for the rest of their lives.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Surprised how many people were opposed to hunting deer with guns. I know that's super popular in some places.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It makes more sense as the survey was conducted on British adults.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Ah, makes sense. In Texas, everyone does that lol.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if this odd result is from the question not specifying trophy hunting vs. food hunting. If you eat meat it wouldn't make sense to be against food hunting, but it would make sense if you think they're hunting deer just to hang a big antler head on your wall

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Good point. Most vegetarians and vegans I’ve met have had relatively favorable views of hunting for food, compared to animal agriculture, since it’s such a more sustainable and ethical way to acquire meat

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Well, it can be. I knew a guy who talked about some of his (incompetent) deer kills in a way that made me pretty sure he was extending the suffering deliberately. That or he was just a callous dick and a bad shot.

He did kill himself in a 4-wheeler accident though, so sucks to suck I guess.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  1. It’s British adults, not Americans. Private gun ownership is uncommon-to-rare, and hunting even less so.
  2. It’s British adults, so you need to read almost everything through the lens of classism and/or class jealousy. Most hunting in the UK is done by the upper class - there are genuine outdoorsmen hunting types but the norm is posh folk hunting for sport.
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think far less than 41% of the population actually won't wear leather. Also, apparently riding a donkey is worse than riding a horse, and dog races are worse than horse races.

[–] Artisian 16 points 2 months ago

Note they merge 'somewhat unacceptable' and 'unacceptable' into the bars, which is.... a choice.

[–] tburkhol 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Dog races are worse than horse races, mostly because the dogs are trained to be more-or-less psychotic. Horses, you can see as understanding the competition they're in and being (at least mostly) willing participants.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Can you explain about the dogs? I thought that while they aren't always treated well, running and chasing things is natural for them.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Pretty surprised at the difference between leather and fur. Poor cows need better PR.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Sounds like they need fur.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Who the fuck is in the 6% who are fine with dog fighting?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Winners of dog fight bets probably

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[–] chetradley 3 points 2 months ago

Some people see no inherent value in animals aside from the utility they have for humans. It allows them to justify whatever we do to animals as long as it provides some perceived benefit to us.

I would suspect this train of thought leads some to conclude that dog fighting is ok since it provides entertainment to people, in the same way that farming animals is ok because it provides food that people enjoy eating.

Now you and I know that dogs, like most other animals, are sentient. They have a subjective experience that allows them to feel fear, loss, pain, happiness and love. This is why I (and I suspect you) believe dogs should not be forced to fight each other for our amusement.

As pointed out in the graphic, most people feel that at least some commodification of animals is morally justifiable. It's up to you where you would draw the line.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I don't like how they had four data points, but combined them into only two.

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[–] Artisian 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't understand the opposition to mobile zoos of reptiles/snakes. Are people just voting 'ick' factor, or is there something horrifying I've missed?

[–] HauntedCupcake 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't think you've missed anything. Reptiles are particularly good for mobile zoos as many don't stress easily and don't require (or in some cases actively hate) large enclosures. Tegus, Monitors, and more intelligent lizards actually seem to enjoy, or at least show interest in, people and new places.

As long as the keeper is responsible and takes good care of the animals I don't know what exactly the problem is

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Most of these kinds of mobile reptile zoos are educational as well.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Where is "eating animals from livestock"?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I’m surprised that deer hunting is shown as so unacceptable here. Who was sampled for this, and where do they live? I’m guessing not the Midwest lol

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

The demographics sampled are adults from the UK.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

TIL you only need a 26% approval rate for a controversial practice to be widely legal and accepted.

[–] BleatingZombie 5 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I don't understand why there are any who oppose riding horses

Is it bad for them or something?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

People have a bigger issue with fish in an aquarium than animals on a zoo, that's so weird seeing as aquarius usually have giant tanks that replicate natural habitat where zoos just have poor animals in pens that are always too small. Fucking weird

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