They will fucking do anything but build proper infrastructure...
put that shit on a rail jfc
this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024
121 points (98.4% liked)
Fuck Cars
9808 readers
151 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Tbf, there is a place in public transit infrastructure for busses. Trains are great, but there are routes out there that would be impractical to serve with a full size train or inefficiently expensive to build out tram rails for, but which a bus can serve effectively.
We have the South Lake Union Railcar in Seattle. Nobody rides it. And like I’m not one to blame infrastructure, but you can literally walk faster than it moves. Meanwhile there are shitloads of buses with plenty of ridership. Many fully electric with overhead wire.
Meanwhile bicyclists routinely get their wheels caught in the tracks and eat it.
I can’t imagine the efficiency of rail makes much difference in a city environment. The best argument I’ve heard for rail is that it’s more a commitment to developers that the route won’t be changed any time soon.
Light rail is almost always more energy efficient, more cost effective, safer, offers a smoother ride, requires less maintenance, and it can be fully automated.
Lots of major cities outside of the US have had great success using light rail. I have no idea how Seattle managed to fuck it up
the secret american sauce of corruption where they spend the money, got nothing to show for it and public just gets to pay the clean up cost for failure
the main argument I see for rail is that it doesnt get stuck in car traffic, which should make it easier to keep to a reliable schedule and speed, and that it can have a higher capacity per vehicle. Those would seem to indicate that it should be better than busses for routes that are very busy, provided of course that the rail infrastructure is actually good (able to do a reasonable speed, have reasonable reliability, and separated from other modes of transit to as to not cause conflicts at crossings). If your trains are so slow you can beat them by walking, and directly cross the roads and bike paths, then its not trains as a concept that are the problem, its that you have rather bad trains.
The rail car in question is not grade separated.
It doesn't need to be if you enforce the rules very stirctly at first using both officers on the ground and cameras to fine drivers who think they can just slip into the lane for a bit. Repeat offenders get stricter fines and even impoundment.
You could go one step further and not let cars on the tram line at all without grade seperation. You could do this by building dedicated seperate lanes for the trams or by not including any adjacent car lanes at all. And of course all of this should be done with transit signal priority to reduce the time they waste at red lights and help keep the tram on time with its schedule.
Does your tram get stuck in traffic or something? Why is it that slow?
I don't know much about trams but I kinda feel like that's not supposed to happen.
I don't think anyone's arguing for no busses. It's more like not only busses.
For long term investment the tram wins out in energy efficiency. If you want the next politician in power to easily be able to remove transit, the bus wins.
By building a tram line you cement into the city that it is now a transit corridor. The city can then develop more densely if needed to increase ridership or make the area more catered to pedestrians.
how is this glider any different from a regular bus?
is this where this thing being deployed?
all i see propaganda of some Liverpool based bureaucrat buying shit with taxpayer money. Is this actually beneficial?
From the look of it, its is a regular bus, it just looks to have a low floor tram-like design. Which doesnt make it not a bus, but might make it a bit more pleasant to ride.
Liverpool used to have elevated rail 😔
BRT is also effective. It's rail without the rails. In areas that are car dependent, it's going to be substantially cheaper for cities to build out BRT while expanding the rail lines. In my (us) city, they're building out a pretty substantial BRT while also expanding one of the light rail lines. The BRT network currently in construction is half the price of the current light rail expansion under construction.
Buses are good but why waste money on making buses to look like trams?
According to the BBC, the changes have huge positive upsides: "The Glider buses can carry around 30% more passengers than a double decker bus, and has space for wheelchairs and luggage. The vehicles also use a tap and go payment system to speed up boarding and have three sets of double doors which Mr Rotheram said helps people get on and off the service "much more quickly"."
so a basic bus scania was manufacturing back in 1990s?
Buses are a lot more practical for residential areas than trains, and quieter too.
Im almost certain an electric tram would be quieter than a bus. The rubber tires have more friction and make more noise. The exhaust from the bus can be loud and smelly.
Electric buses are IMO quieter than trams, because trams have these unpleasant metal noise.
Both are quieter than diesel buses.
Yes second tier UK city buying a bus requires www.independent.co.uk to run a propaganda piece to celebrate the big W
🤡
A bus that looks like a tram that says "metro" on the front. Still better than a car.
These buses are 18 meter long and made by Van Hool. In Linz (Austria) we have more than 20 of them, but the larger version with 24 meters that can carry up to 180 passengers.
The 24 meter version is running in Trondheim, Norway. They currently have 58 busses, and are planning to increase with more routes. The city has plenty of narrow streets and a few steep hills, but it doesn't seem to be a problem unless the weather is extreme in the winter.
made by Van Hool
Where are they now?
spoiler
bankrupt and all assets carved up
On 10 April 2024, it was announced that Van Hool's trustees had accepted a takeover bid from Netherlands-based bus manufacturer[3] VDL and Germany-based semi-trailer manufacturer Schmitz Cargobull.
Okay, but when are they going to finish the HS2?
Everything combustion is a waste of energy
Oh yeah?
*flicks a lighter behind butt*
Smells like confused burned butt hair
Looks like the TVR from Nancy, which was a failure and they're trying to replace it with trolleybusses
But that utter failure of a tram was actually a tramway that would get on wheels instead of rails at some points. This looks more like the Mettis in Metz which are double articulated hybrid buses using dedicated lanes.