this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2024
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144
TSMC Arizona struggles to overcome vast differences between Taiwanese and US work culture (www.tomshardware.com)
submitted 4 months ago by vegeta to c/technology
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[–] ChocoboRocket 92 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Isn't this how Walmart failed in Germany?

Basically the "roadmap to success" used in other countries failed in Germany/Europe mostly because that "success" was only achievable through "human rights abuses" and "violating labor laws" that aren't troublesome in parts of the world where labour rights are neutered at every opportunity, and large portions of the population people are too impoverished to afford necessities elsewhere

[–] JASN_DE 36 points 4 months ago

They failed through a combination of exactly that plus the wrongfully held opinion that their usual plan of selling cheaper than other supermarkets and thereby pushing them out of the market would work the same as in other countries.

Doesn't really work if the other supermarkets are already working with very thin margins. They burnt through a little over 3 billion € by the time they left the German market.

[–] partial_accumen 73 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This seems like the critical parts:

One big problem is that TSMC has been trying to do things the Taiwanese way, even in the U.S. In Taiwan, TSMC is known for extremely rigorous working conditions, including 12-hour work days that extend into the weekends and calling employees into work in the middle of the night for emergencies. TSMC managers in Taiwan are also known to use harsh treatment and threaten workers with being fired for relatively minor failures.

...and ...

If TSMC is going to succeed with its Arizona chip-making venture, it needs to come to terms with the fact that it’s not the only game in town there. While TSMC is considered by many in Taiwan as the pinnacle of engineering jobs, other companies in Arizona are competing for that labor pool. Intel, in particular, is expanding its Arizona chip factory.

So TSMC wants to abuse workers ...and there's another local alternative employer in the exact same specialty field that won't do that.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

TSMC has been sending U.S. employees to Taiwan to observe the Taiwanese way

Why? They aren't working in Taiwan, regardless of where the company is from. Sounds a lot more like stereotypical arrogance from upper management, and they're getting a wakeup call that Americans won't put up with it.

Hell, I've walked out of jobs because a manager thought it was OK to yell at me... Yea, fuck you, good luck finding a replacement. Also, grow the fuck up.

[–] Entropywins 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Nah tsmc has a reputation for a reason and their foundries processes are top of the line peak semiconductor manufacturing...literally no one is up to par with tsmc...it has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with tsmc being the best at what they do.

To clarify they produce higher quality products in larger quantities than anyone else on earth and even the semiconductor manufacturer I work for uses tsmc for manufacturing of certain ICs.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

Who thought this would be fine? Did they look at Elon and Amazon and just think they could pull that shit too?

[–] vegeta 40 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I find it hard to believe this wasn't factored in already. I guess common C suite arrogance knows no geographic boudaries?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

Plus the cultural differences...they likely were shocked an employee had the audacity to walk away.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago

“Nobody wants to work anymore”

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago

What did they have the audacity to not want to be worked to the bone?

[–] jamyang 8 points 4 months ago

This is why Foxconn did not go ahead with their expansion plans in India too. They are so used to the Chinese way, I guess they experienced a Pikachu moment when Indian workers started removing their aprons the moment it hit 5'o clock.

India may be a poor country, but the average laborer (skilledd or unskilled) is much more aware of his rights than a worker from PRC.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Does Phoenix have a big enough local talent pool needed to staff this kind of operation? Or are they counting on attracting talent from other places in the US?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I imagine, from what's indicated on the market, that they don't which is why TSMC is investing in schools of the area to get students trained to work with them.

[–] JJROKCZ 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Investing in schools is great, love that, but it will take years if not decades to make an impact on the workforce

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well, my understanding is it's also university, regardless, it seems like a plan of build it and people will come. a bit problematic when a competitor can offer similar pay with less abuse.

[–] JJROKCZ 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Probably plan on intel on continuing to implode over the next few years and there not being a competitor lol

[–] computergeek125 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

As much as I dislike how Intel works sometimes, this market does not need fewer competitors.

[–] JJROKCZ 1 points 4 months ago

I agree but that doesn’t change the fact that intel is collapsing. I don’t think we need to artificially prop up failing companies either, if they are needed and they fail then nationalize their assets and let a closely monitored government entity run the fabs

[–] LoKout 1 points 4 months ago

Intel's factories are literally 2 hours away from the TSMC facility. There are several other chip makers near to Intel, and staff tends to shift around between these, and I believe that will continue. I do not know what TSMC is doing for a talent pool, though I also heard they are not staffing the Arizona facility with high end engineering. That will stay in Taiwan, and this plant will be focused on production.

[–] Pacmanlives 3 points 4 months ago

It’s a movie called Gung Ho filmed in 1986 staring Michael Keaton https://youtu.be/roN6qm1ItYg?si=nssHIncHW265vufd

[–] foggenbooty 2 points 4 months ago

There's a whole documentary on this. Check out American Factory (2019). It goes over the same issues outlined here.