this post was submitted on 07 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 110 points 7 months ago (20 children)

article

the weird thing is that Israel's government is being confusing - the ceasefire is meant to be lasting but they have vowed to invade Rafah anyway until Hamas is toppled.

Sounds to me like Netanyahus government wants to trade hostages to appease protesters and voters, and then continue flattening Rafah anyway.

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[–] [email protected] 109 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Hamas wants a permanent cease-fire. Israel wants a temporary truce.

I suppose having your victims very publically calling out for peace, and actively trying to push for negotiations alongside other countries would "confuse" the narrative that they're supposed to be bloodthirsty animals.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I literally saw an article in the Israeli press talking about: Agreeing to a temporary truce would be a good idea because then we can use the pause to rearm, resupply, and rest, and then resume the killing having netted ourselves some goodwill on the world stage.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago

Well yeah, that's been Israel's playbook for the last 8 decades of conflict.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The reality is that both Hamas and Israel would do the same in a "permanent cease fire". Hamas famously won't sign a peace treaty with Israel - that's how they became famous internationally in the 90s, by refusing the peace process. For the same reason Netanyahu - and most Israeli leaders - won't sign a proper peace treaty with Hamas. Both want to eradicate the other.

[–] Linkerbaan 9 points 7 months ago (14 children)

Hamas has already stated they would agree to a permanent peace treaty if a Palestinian state is established.

Ergo only israel is currently in the way of a two state solution.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Rumors are that Hamas accepted a temporary ceasefire deal this time with American verbal guarantees that they would not let Israel continue after the 40 days passed.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago

"Those sons of bitches are only doing everything we asked them to in order to confuse us and make us look bad."

[–] RizzRustbolt 26 points 7 months ago

"Hamas! No!"

"What? What did I do?"

"Sorry, force of habit."

[–] Crack0n7uesday 26 points 7 months ago (4 children)

While I want this to end as much as most people, a ceasefire is not the same as a peace agreement. North and South Korea have had a ceasefire since before I was born, but they constantly try to scare the world into thinking it could end at any moment, WW2 ended with a peace treaty, and the Nazi regime was officially removed from power as part of the treaty.

[–] Linkerbaan 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (14 children)

Of course it's only a matter of time until israel starts violating the ceasefire as they always do.

But at least Netanyahu will go to jail first.

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[–] PugJesus 24 points 7 months ago (28 children)

The terms Hamas had agreed to were not immediately clear, but a senior Israeli official quickly said that the terms were not those that Israel had agreed to.

Looks like the headline matches reality.

You keep spewing totalitarian cacophony, you crazy diamond.

[–] Land_Strider 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Linkerbaan vs PugJesus. Linkerbaan ratio is 5, PugJesus ratio is 2. Draw is 1. Results at 10pm.

On the serious note: An accessible link would be appreciated.

[–] PugJesus 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Wayback machine cuts off early, but this is what it gives:

https://web.archive.org/web/20240506193731/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-ceasefire-talks.html

The announcement by Hamas on Monday that it had accepted terms of a cease-fire added to the uncertainty that began over the weekend, when officials said that the armed group and Israel had reached an impasse after months of talks.

As if to underscore that the fighting would continue, Hamas militants on Sunday launched rockets from Rafah, their last stronghold in Gaza, killing four Israeli soldiers. The following morning, Israel announced a mass evacuation of areas in Rafah, escalating fears that the military would soon begin a long-anticipated invasion of the crowded city.

Hours later, Hamas suddenly announced that its leader, Ismail Haniyeh, had accepted a cease-fire proposal based on a plan proffered by Egypt and Qatar, which have been mediating the negotiations with Israel. The terms Hamas had agreed to were not immediately clear, but a senior Israeli official quickly said that the terms were not those that Israel had agreed to.

While Israel and its main ally, the United States, said they were reviewing the proposal Hamas had agreed to, the public statements by the two sides in the war suggest that they remain far apart on key issues needed to reach a truce. Here is a look at those differences.

Hamas wants a permanent cease-fire. Israel wants a temporary truce. The two sides are stuck on a fundamental question: will this cease-fire be a temporary pause to allow an exchange of hostages for prisoners or a long-term end to the fighting that would leave Hamas in power?

Israel insists on a temporary cease-fire, saying it will keep fighting afterward with the eventual aim of toppling Hamas’s rule in Gaza. Hamas demands a permanent cease-fire and vows to remain in power there.

AP is saying the same thing.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-humanitarian-aid-8659eae6e0a7362504f0aa4aa4be53e0

[–] Land_Strider 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Thank you. It kinda sounds like there is a lack of information on what Hamas agreed to, for which I saw a post saying release of 33 hostages for 40 days of ceasefire. Can't find it atm tho, the post may have vanished if it weren't backed up with news.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

Al Jazeera: Here are all the details of what Hamas agreed to

Washington Post: Here's a quick overview of the plan, and details of what Israel doesn't like about it

BBC: Here's a quick overview and Israel's reaction

NYT: OMG who can even say what might be in this proposal. Like the flying dutchman, it is an elusive and mysterious beast, and we need to wait for the light of the full moon to even glimpse its outline. Plus you know, Hamas lies all the time.

Also NYT: the "armed group" (i.e. Hamas)

Also NYT: "As if to underscore that the fighting would continue, Hamas militants on Sunday launched rockets" (motherfucker the Israelis are "militants" and "fighting", too) ... "killing four Israeli soldiers" (oh, so they attacked the soldiers in Gaza attacking them? I see the problem -- they should have blown up an Israeli hospital or university; then apparently you'd be fine with it.)

I genuinely can't continue because I'm getting for real pissed off about it. But I think it's safe to assume the whole fucking article is written this way. I actually started paying again for a subscription to the NYT because I like journalism, but I think I may cancel it and send them a short note explaining why, like an angry middle-aged white woman storming out of a Starbucks.

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[–] Hamartia 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if those totally-bias-free media bias checker sites that folks like to use to discount leftwing news sources have reflected on any of NYT's latest propaganda?

lol nope!

Nothing quite says highly factual democratic socialism (center-left) quite like churning out one sided propaganda for an appartiting, genocidal group of ethnofascists.

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[–] capital 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

These snips of headlines with a little response are nearly always misleading.

This adds nothing to the conversation.

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[–] plz1 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

When NYT can't properly pluralize a word that already ends with "s" in a headline...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They failed getting the possessive right not the plural..

[–] cone_zombie 7 points 7 months ago

It's actually the correct way to use the possesive. You only use the apostrophe when the noun is plural and ends with "s"

[–] frostysauce 6 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Well, what does the article say?

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