this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
581 points (95.3% liked)

World News

37327 readers
4431 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] FlyingSquid 168 points 2 months ago (65 children)

That will never happen while Netanyahu and his regime are in power. And the only time steps were taken in that direction, the Israeli Prime Minister got assassinated.

[–] Everythingispenguins 68 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Assassinated by hard line Israelis who refuse to accept any type of two states solution. I have always wondered if we would have seen a true two state solution if Yitzhak Rabin hadn't been shot. I think it probably would have happened.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (64 replies)
[–] _sideffect 83 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Lmao, fuck this guy. He doesn't give two fucks about Palestine or its people.

[–] Son_of_dad 68 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Hamas leadership are a bunch of wealthy old men who live abroad in comfort.

[–] WraithGear 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 49 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (66 children)

The fact that a large number of people in the West are denying this and portraying Hamas as freedom fighters is very worrying.

load more comments (66 replies)
[–] Maggoty 44 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (8 children)

Before people go off about them being evil, how much worse would it be if you tried? If it fails you're just back in the same place. If it works then you have peace.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] Altofaltception 38 points 2 months ago (20 children)

If you consider that Hamas only exists to fight against Israeli oppression over an ineffective PA, it makes sense that if the oppression ends, Hamas becomes irrelevant.

[–] xhieron 34 points 2 months ago

That's a chicken and egg problem, though, isn't it: Netanyahu's government wants Hamas because the conflict keeps Bibi out of prison, and Hamas wants to remain relevant. All the same, the Israeli and Palestinian people are the ones who suffer due to both regimes being in power, and Hamas doesn't shed its guilt just because Israel doesn't want a reasonable Palestinian government. Neither side wants to blink because they have multi-generational hatred for the other side, and that means popular support for further violence probably isn't going anywhere. You back down! No, you back down!

The result is that neither side is going to take real steps to deescalate, because both sides benefit from the conflict. That the Palestinians are suffering more, by orders of magnitude, doesn't make either side's position any less entrenched: Bibi wants to stay in power (and free), and Hamas wants to remain relevant and in power, and they're more justified now than ever. Both regimes need to be replaced.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (7 children)

It's important to note that for most of its existence, "fighting against Israeli oppression" explicitly meant Israel no longer existing. This is the first time I can remember them even implying that they would accept a two state solution.

[–] jpreston2005 29 points 2 months ago (7 children)

they accepted a two-state solution previously, the isreali PM that was negotiating with them at the time was assassinated.

[–] gimpchrist 32 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli law student who didn't believe in the peace talks. Hamas didn't even kill him, Israel did it. No fucking surprise there.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] Keeponstalin 19 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades: Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937, Arab League advocating for Unified State 1948

After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.

Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

History of peace process - The Intercept

The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

  • Avi Shlaim

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (18 replies)
[–] ZMoney 33 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Gotta love the wording in this article "Hamas, which is committed to the destruction of Israel..."

It's because the "state" of Israel is inseparable from a military blockade that imposes a starvation regime and illegally settles lands in the West Bank in direct defiance of the UN. It's like saying I'm committed to the destruction of the US because I'm committed to ending criminal wars of aggression, unconstitutional mass surveillance, and a prison system with 2 million residents.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] paddirn 32 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think Israeli leadership has already made the decision that all of that region is their land and they're not sharing it with anybody, or if they do, it'll be smaller reservations, similar to American Indian reservations in the US. They just want the Palestinians to eventually fade away. Violent groups like Hamas just help them more than anything because it gets Israelis riled up and gives their military an excuse to go in and carve out even more territory, so I'm sure they don't even care about this, they're like, "Why would we want you to lay down your arms?"

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I think Israeli leadership has already made the decision that all of that region is their land and they’re not sharing it with anybody

Left unchecked, this is only going to be the beginning.

Jordan condemns far-right Israeli minister over "Greater Israel" map

Jordan accused far-right Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich of violating the peace agreement between the two countries after he gave a speech in Paris at a podium featuring a map that included Jordan and the occupied West Bank as part of Israel and said the Palestinian people were "an invention."

https://currentaffairs.adda247.com/greater-israel-map/

The term “Greater Israel“ has been a contentious and debated concept related to the State of Israel and its territorial boundaries. This article explores the controversial idea of a “Greater Israel” and the various interpretations surrounding it. The concept of a “Greater Israel”, according to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, is a Jewish State stretching “from the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.”

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago (1 children)

“Best we can do is value menu holocaust.”

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago (80 children)

I would personally reject this deal.

The Palestinian people do not deserve to live under the rule of Hamas. In 19 years of living under Hamas, after all the money given to them by the US, France, the UK, Qatar, Iran, and even Israel, the only thing they built for the Palestinian people has been tunnels to commit terrorism from.

[–] Passerby6497 23 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I would personally reject this deal.

The Palestinian people do not deserve to live under the rule of Hamas.

Instead, they deserve to live under the genocidal tyranny of Israel. Clearly that's the much better choice.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (4 children)

After Ireland gained independence they fought a civil war. Same in countless outer places. The Greeks fought one while fighting for independence. I fully expect the Palestinians to do the same.

The thing is: the Israelis don't get to decide any of this. That what independence from Israel means.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Phegan 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They also do not deserve to live under an Israeli genocide.

[–] assassin_aragorn 12 points 2 months ago (13 children)

I mean yeah, but why can't we have a two state solution that gets rid of Hamas as a governing authority and also stops genocide?

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] Keeponstalin 15 points 2 months ago (5 children)

The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972. After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted. This has been a deliberate tactic of De-development.

Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress

Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.)

  • page 240

In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

  • Page 402

The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] gimpchrist 14 points 2 months ago

It said a free Palestinian State not Hamas rules

load more comments (75 replies)
[–] Son_of_dad 21 points 2 months ago (25 children)

With them on top of that new state? There will never be peace as long as Netanyahu and Hamas are in power. They all need to go

load more comments (25 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago

The charter of Likud says

Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

so let's see if Israel chooses security or expansion this time. Every other time they have chosen expansion and a Greater Israel, but hopefully they choose peace this time.

load more comments
view more: next ›