If it was a few hundred, sure but SawStops start at $1,000 for a jobsite style table saw which is more than I paid for my big cast iron saw. If I could retrofit that saw that would be great but I don't see the need to replace it with a unit several times the price on a slim possibility of an accident.
this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2024
48 points (96.2% liked)
New York Times gift articles
552 readers
183 users here now
Share your New York Times gift articles links here.
Rules:
- Only post New York Times gift article links.
Info:
- The NYT Open Team. (2021-06-23). “A New Way to Share New York Times Stories”. open.nytimes.com.
- “Gift Articles for New York Times Subscribers”. (n.d.). help.nytimes.com.
Tip:
- Google "unlocked_article_code" and limit search results to the past week.
- Mastodon: Use control-F or ⌘-F to search this page. (ref)
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I mean that's objectively expensive, but a ~thousand to for safety equipment that could save someone's digit sounds super cheap.
Then there's just the intangible morale boost working with tools designed with your safety and well-being in mind.
This is like saying we should more than double car prices and insist they're all carbon fibre tubs for safety reasons.
If it moves the product price by such a large margin, you're only talking about profit motive when trying to exclude products without the parented feature.
You can save your digits just by operating the tool properly.
True. Also accidents never happen.
Not often enough to force everyone to pay a premium to have sawstops installed on every saw. If they want to make it an osha thing for professionals maybe, but I as a hobbyist don't need or want it. If I did I could buy one already.
That's my problem with this, an entry level table saw from skil or whatever is a couple hundred bucks and lots of beginner woodworkers still have to save up for one. A table saw (IMHO) is kind of a barrier of entry into more serious projects (yes I know there are lots of other ways to make other tools function). If they don't come down in price then that's going to suck big time.
Sawstop is an interesting story. They made a great invention, but when no one wanted to license it they started suing companies and pushing for regulation changes, and supposedly have even rejected some companies who have wanted to license their technology (Grizzly). And of course, the infamous Bosch Reaxx lawsuit, where they succeeded in stopping Bosch from importing their version of a safe Table Saw.
Interesting read I found while looking into this more https://toolguyd.com/companies-allege-sawstop-refused-to-license-safety-tech/
And a cool hackaday: https://hackaday.com/2017/06/22/ask-hackaday-sawstop-bastion-of-safety-or-patent-troll/
The big question: is it cheaper than paying for a small number of very expensive and very destructive accidents.
My gut is probably.
My dad was a carpenter and cabinet maker for most of his life. Even in retirement he spends most of his time restoring antique wood furniture. In all of that time he has never cut himself with the tablesaw. He has had the table saw kick lumber back at him. He has cut himself with other saws. But the tablesaw is probably one of the least dangerous saws a woodworker works with outside of unpowered hand saws. By forcing saw stop you are jacking up the prices of even cheap tablesaws several times over and forcing more people to use the far more dangerous alternative which is a handheld circular saw.
This is objectively incorrect, unfortunately. It's an anecdotal study with an n of 1. Whenever they check the numbers on this, table saws are responsible for like 40% of power tool related accidents. They've recently done studies that also show experience and training also don't correlate to less injuries, complacency negates that for enough time to get injured.
The only thing that reduces injury are mechanical or physical additions to the devices.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258951412300021X
it all depends on how much you use your saw, if it's not often, then the threat is far less than if you use it all the time. it's a matter or percentages vs risk.
Their saws are competitive with similiar quality cabinet saws from General. I get what you're saying about accidents being unlikely if you use your noggin, but they really aren't much of a price difference. It's less than retrofitting a sawstop addon to an existing saw.
I've gone for decades without cutting a hand off, but I'd pay the little bit extra if I had to replace my tablesaw today.
The struggle for people like me is that I currently can't afford a new saw, and I don't like the idea that the way Sawstop works is that it ruins the blade in addition to saving your fingers. A cheap trade when it works as intended but not cheap at all when it goes off because you forgot to disable it before cutting some treated lumber.
Not that I don't want a saw that can prevent a limb loss, it's just too damn expensive.
SawStop tried to give away this technology (no upfront costs, 3% royalties) and nome of the major manufacturers would take it.
3% royalties is not "giving away". Now they're trying to force it by law while also patent trolling to stop manufacturers from making similar systems on their own. They're not concerned with safety, they're after profit.
It's not, but it's pretty cheap for potentially life saving technology that you didn't have to put your own time and money into upfront.
It's not cheap for the customers.
A stick solves this problem. You shouldn't need a saw stop, everyone should be using push sticks for table saws. Legislation forcing saw stop technology is insane.
Push sticks are good in some instances, but the lack of control can lead to kickback events. I don't think there is one gold standard way to perform all cuts.
I got kick back on an 1/8" sheet of Luan once. Got me right in the gut. Never made that mistake again.
Leather apron. A bit on the costly side for a decent one but damn that thing saved my ass on more than one occasion.
At least you protected the wall behind you!
Okay, not even a true or correct take here.
Sticks, while they help mitigate some of the risk, it's not the end all, be all of safety here, infact, I don't particularly like the stick. I've had more than a few instances where things bind, stick slips, non-hilarity ensued and honestly a solution like saw stop or Bosch's reaxx, which btw fuck saw stop for that one, solution is a better, safer solution. Hell I don't even use sticks anymore, I much prefer the microjigs now but they aren't perfect either.
Now you can argue about saw stop's pettition to have their technology mandated on all new saws. That's valid, but honestly I lean toward viewing this like air bags on cars, it's the right direction to go but without mandating stop saw's expensive patented technology unless they make it open or they have a reasonable agreement that isn't going to jack up the price to hundreds of dollars.
Sounds like how Volvo gave the patent for the 3 point seatbelt away too.
Like, at least 5$.
sounds like a threat to me, "nice fingers you got there, would be a shame if something were to happen to them"
Am I wrong for thinking that if you're at risk of losing a finger to a table saw, you're using it wrong?
No, you’re not, but you are wrong if you think anyone is capable of using a tool correctly 100% of the time.
I suspect none of you own a table saw. As someone who does, some cuts require you to remove guards and safety parts. Even pushing the wood through the blade too quickly can cause kickback and injury. It is very easy to injure yourself when operating a table saw.
I only got injured on a table saw once and it was kickback on a saw I don't own. Not certain, but I think I was not used to the high rotation speed of the blade. Minor injuries but I am very very careful when using my table saw...to the point that I will not use it at all if I think I am too tired.
Problem is that it only takes using it wrong once to lose a finger, and all it takes is a moment of inattention for that to happen.
From the article:
“All it takes” to slice a finger, he said, “is a sneeze or a knot in the wood.”