this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on::Tesla has been slashing prices. Ford just cut the price of its Mustang Mach-E, too, plus it cut back production of its electric pickup. And General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids, arguably a step back from EVs.

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[–] espentan 76 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Btw, in Norway 92% of new car sales in January were electric cars, and apparently predictions for February are even higher.

When the infrastructure is there, people appear to have little to no qualms buying electric cars.

[–] abhibeckert 36 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

Norway has a range of subsidies worth up to half the price of the vehicle and home upgrades plus tax exemptions worth another 25% on top of that.

Which can mean a brand new EV is the same price as an old secondhand ICE.

Incentives like that are a lot easier your entire national population is smaller than some cities.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 9 months ago

The reason why Europe can pull off progressive reforms has nothing to do with population or geography, Europe is bigger than the US on both fronts. It has to do with political will.

[–] espentan 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I only meant to say that many of the things that might put people off buying electric cars, like range concerns etc. can be alleviated.

Even with subsidies and incentives it was slow going in the beginning, before people gained trust in the infrastructure and realized electric could be a real and practical alternative.

I didn't mean to be an asshole, sorry.

[–] Slowy 7 points 9 months ago

You weren’t an asshole

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (4 children)

How does a smaller population make it easier to pay those incentives? Less people also means less tax income and vice versa

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[–] kalleboo 4 points 9 months ago

Incentives like that are a lot easier your entire national population is smaller than some cities.

Maybe you should split your country up into smaller, independent regions that can govern more effectively.

You could call them "States"

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 9 months ago (13 children)

I'm in the market for a BEV. Have been for 3 years. The reason I don't have one is:

A. The cars that are large enough for my use case (weekend getaways with kids and or friends) are all super expensive luxury vehicles with poor ratings.

B. Availability. Other than the Mustang Mach-E, nothing is available here (Canada) without a minimum 6 month wait list. (Ioniq 5 is 1 year).

C. Poor reliability and/or features. (See the disaster that is the Chevy Blazer EV).

At this point I'm waiting for the Ioniq 7. Hopefully it will be as well reviewed as it's sister the EV9.

The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they're selling. But they're framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.

The media and those apposed to EVs are buying it of course.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Is it so much to ask that I be able to get a vehicle that's just...normal but also an EV? Not a monster truck, not some space ship looking thing, just like a Honda Accord but an EV...I don't think that's asking so much but apparently automakers disagree.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It goes hand in hand with the prices. If you're going to spend that much more on a BEV, you want it to be different. And making it look different doesn't cost significantly more.

Also, car shape and style has so much to do with ICE vehicle design necessity.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I mean, I don't want it to look different. I want a regular sedan or small vehicle like a Honda Fit (which is what I have now and it's a good size). I just want it to be an EV. So maybe there's a market for the weird looking cars and have massive SUVs but that's not what I want. I wouldn't be caught dead in a cyber truck or this 80s TV show sentient vehicle looking thing.

That's my 2 cents but I don't think I'm the only one.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I got a Peugeot 208. It's small, and ok in all aspects except the software. Typical bad car UI. It works with cabled Android Auto, so for long drives that's more than fine. But touch screen is still old, and the app/site hasn't let me log in for a few weeks now... So I can't remote start heating.

But it's a great car that I bought used, for driving to and from work. Looks good, yellow color, parking sensors and rear camera for my blind ass. But is also probably not available in America for all I know, I live in Europe.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

The Hyundai Ioniq was like that, sadly they discontinued it

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I'm considering to get a Polestar 2 for many reasons but also because... No waiting time 😉

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Oh yeah, forgot that one. Way too small for me, but a really nice car. If the Polestar 3 wasn't so stupid expensive, I'd love to get that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Picked up a used 2022 Polestar 2 about 6 months ago for nearly half off. No regrets, because it’s an awesome car, and I strongly recommend it

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[–] bisby 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I still find it super weird. A (remote) coworker bought an ioniq 5 after 9 months on a wait list... 3 months later, I went to a dealership. they had one on the lot (3 actually). Was able to get one with 0 wait.

Looking at their website, they have 4 2024 ioniq 5s available right now, an SEL, SE, and 2x Limited.

So apparently my local dealership is the sweet spot. Or is this purely a Canada vs US thing?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes, availability in the US is much better. You can find a base ioniq 5 here easily now, but nobody wants those. Everyone wants the long range AWD.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, I want a Mach-E (at least in theory) ... but I want it to have a good 500-600 mile range (or for the charging network to be much bigger than it is)... It's unfortunate really

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Is the charging network that bad in the US that you need to get that far without charging?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

So for me I make a trek to my parents house ~150 miles away a few times a year.

In good weather (and good battery condition), I could maybe skip hitting the chargers all together, or get a little bit of charging at my parents house from a wall outlet.

Unless my parents (or my grandfather that I also visit fairly regularly who lives the same distance in a different direction) installed a better charger at their place... In colder weather (e.g. Christmas), I'd almost definitely need to use a charger while going at least one direction.

The problem is, in both cases, there are like 5-10 charges total (not charging stations, chargers) where as there are like 5-10 gas stations all right next to the interstate each with at least 4 pumps, many with 8+ pumps.

I'm concerned that during peak travel in cold weather (e.g. Christmas time travel), I could easily find myself in a bad situation where I can't get a charger because they're all too far away, broken, or in use. There's just not enough redundancy.

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[–] The_Quaz 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The charging network actually is about to get much bigger, as Ford will be able to use tesla superchargers starting sometime within next few months. (and is providing a free adapter to owners). I've had my Mach e for 6 months and couldn't be happier with it.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 9 months ago

Auto makers "slashing prices." With perhaps one or 2 small exceptions, can you actually go out and buy an EV for under 40K in the US? Didn't think so. Seems to be a whole lotta confusion about "demand" and the manufacturers actually making an electric car that normal people can afford.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (2 children)

My next car purchase if at all, will be some plugin electric (full or hybrid). The only reason I haven't purchased it yet is because the form factor I am looking for in a car hasn't been made in a plug in variety yet.

Also the stories about constant surveillance and tracking, and the push for shit-tier infotainment when I already have one in my pocket (phone) are not helping either.

Just make a dumb battery on wheels, already.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

This is a concern for me also. Tesla is the Apple of car companies: hipster-centric, proprietary everything, overpriced, and really bad from a privacy perspective.

I was looking at Toyotas as I hear they are reliable and have PHEV and other options, but supposedly their data privacy is also extremely poor.

I don't need a lot of the "smart" features of modern cars. I don't need my car phoning the mother ship with it's precise location and other metadata every 3/5 of a second.

I only want a rock solid drive train, basic usable control interface, a radio and maybe a USB port to play my own MP3s. Don't need apps or even navigation. I feel like most EVs are very centered on bell and whistle features and their cost is greatly inflated because of it.

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[–] FrankTheHealer 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I see people on TikTok a lot saying that 'the EV bubble is gonna pop and all these suckers are gonna come crawling back to traditional combustion cars'

Like no. Batteries right now are the worse they will ever be again. This is the worst battery tech is gonna be for the rest of our lives. Theres already EVs with batteries that last a week, of just day to day commuter type travel. And have warranties up to 1,000,000 miles.

What's happening right now is a big shakeup because lots of people can only afford to buy these cars second hand, but people have anxiety about trusting a second hand car with this new tech. So used car sales people are bitching that it's hard to sell them. That doesn't mean they aren't selling though. On top of that, the transition of combustion engines to batteries is causing an industry shakeup. Like there was when we went from horses to cars. When cars first became a thing, people complained about where they will get fuel for it and how long the engine lasts.

Now 100 years on, we are complaining about where we will charge these things, and how long the batteries last.

The transition to EVs is inevitable. You can say it's not happening but you are wrong.

[–] PlaidBaron 18 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I own an EV. Whats to 'crawl back to'? The constant maintenance costs? The expensive fuel? The shittier driving experience? The worse noise and vibration?

Nah, bruh. Im good. I will never go back to ICE.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have a terrible EV. Claims it has 80 miles of range but is really around 50 miles. A drive to work brings it down to 20%. The fast charge port is CHAdeMO, which at least around here is barely used, and even the electrify America places usually only have 1.

I still don't want to switch back, I just want a better one with a more common port. I work from home except for the occasional mandatory in office stuff (one coming this Thurs and probably another next month). Most of the stuff I want to drive to is within a battery's distance to go to and from. About the only thing that really sucks is vacations to visit family.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Gen 2 chevy volt owner here, PHEVs are absolutely not a step back. If I didn't buy the volt, the one car our family could afford would have been an ICE car. IMO, these things help bridge idealism with current reality - for most of my day-to-day, I drive a fully electric car. I just also get the option to toss some gas into it when on a long road trip.

[–] polygon6121 9 points 9 months ago

Probably the best bet right now. Both from a cost perspective and using resources better. One big battery in a single car vs 10 batteries in 10 PHEV. If we want to make a real impact right now the PHEV are a great choice and can reach more people. Then of course, the best is not drive any car at all, asvoften as possible. Taking public transport or walking/cycling is much better than than any BEV, imagine if every car owner would drive 10% less, that would make a huge impact. Much larger than building a fuck ton of BEVs from a sustainability standpoint.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, this. For people with short commutes and in the market for a compact I strongly recommend the Prius Prime. Having a vehicle that can get to work and back without using gas at all, but also can go on long road trips without range anxiety? Perfect. And as an entry-level into the plug-in world, it's nice that I can charge it on regular 110 instead of having to think about an upgrade to an oven-port.

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[–] PeachMan 20 points 9 months ago (15 children)

General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids

GREAT! Ditching PHEV's was a stupid idea, we don't have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV's moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV's work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you're on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.

Have y'all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it's FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.

[–] wolre 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can't charge at home.

[–] T156 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.

Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.

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[–] Badeendje 8 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I read some studies that PHEV owners don't plug in. So there should not be any tax credits for the purchase.

If we want to do anything to stimulate, there should be something based on electric driving.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


And now the EPA is considering slowing down requirements for automakers to sell more electric vehicles, dialing back what had been aggressive plans to move away from gas powered cars and SUVs.

Industry experts cite a number of reasons for this, including vehicle price, lack of charging capacity and confusing tax credit rules.

Besides being too expensive for the average buyer, selection is limited in terms of body style, said Corey Cantor, an industry analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

This is why Ford recently cut prices for the Mach-E SUV and why Farley created a team to work on a less expensive EV engineering platform that will be the basis for future models.

BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis have come together to create a joint venture that plans to install about 30,000 chargers across the United States and Canada.

In the words of the Portuguese auto executive, who spoke to journalists in New York recently, public EV charging needs to “jump on your face” before most customers will consider an electric vehicle.


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