this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
210 points (99.5% liked)

Space

8864 readers
211 users here now

Share & discuss informative content on: Astrophysics, Cosmology, Space Exploration, Planetary Science and Astrobiology.


Rules

  1. Be respectful and inclusive.
  2. No harassment, hate speech, or trolling.
  3. Engage in constructive discussions.
  4. Share relevant content.
  5. Follow guidelines and moderators' instructions.
  6. Use appropriate language and tone.
  7. Report violations.
  8. Foster a continuous learning environment.

Picture of the Day

The Busy Center of the Lagoon Nebula


Related Communities

🔭 Science

🚀 Engineering

🌌 Art and Photography


Other Cool Links

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
all 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] beckerist 34 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So from what I understand, previous rockets shot exhaust out the back in a cone shape. That essentially sprays the exhaust out kind of like a shotgun.

This adds a donut shaped ring of plasma around the tip of the cone which focuses the exhaust into a tighter stream, more like a laser, improving thrust.

Neat!

[–] partial_accumen 71 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Quite a bit more complicated with important distinctions. The biggest differences are where the combustion is occurring.

So from what I understand, previous rockets shot exhaust out the back in a cone shape. That essentially sprays the exhaust out kind of like a shotgun.

Not really. In a bell nozzle engine (which is the traditional rocket engine everyone knows about), the combustion is happening at the far inside of the bell, and the bell is shaped so that all the fuel is burned inside the bell at a specific air pressure. The thrust is provided by the burned fuel which is traveling at high speed. If the air pressure goes down (because your rocket is now higher), you're losing unburned fuel out of the bell, and its providing no thrust. This is the limitation of bell nozzles.

Example. These are the essentially the same rocket engine. The one on the left has a smaller bell (called a skirt) because its sized for air pressure at sea level (which is high). The one on the right is size for the vacuum of space where there is essentially no air pressure.

Wouldn't it be great if there was a single engine that worked great at sea level and equally great in vacuum? That brings us too....

This adds a donut shaped ring of plasma around the tip of the cone which focuses the exhaust into a tighter stream, more like a laser, improving thrust.

Not exactly. What you're describing is called a regular ** "aerospike" rocket engine**, which some designs do have a cone in the middle. What makes the shape so useful it that air pressure pushes the combustion against the cone (spike) at the perfect degree at sea level and in vacuum so that it is very efficient for burning all the fuel without loss.

The problems with aerospike rocket engines is they are VERY heavy, and that cone in the middle gets CRAZY HOT and has a tendency to melt down while the rocket engine is firing

Neat!

The "neat!" is the engine the article is talking about which you haven't described yet. This would be the Rotating Detonation Rocket Engine!

To our slow human eyes it kind of looks like a regular aerospike, but if you slow motion it, you'd see that the flame isn't constant all the way around the cone. A RDE engine has single flame that is racing around the circle and contained by shockwave from the previous combustion.

This also means the cone in the middle stays much cooler, which means it can be made much lighter and not melt down.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago

It’s also how that fuel is burning - detonation vs deflagration.

Put simply, it’s actually exploding rather than just burning, and by controlling how/when more fuel is injected around the ring, you get a controlled explosion that continuously circles around.

They’re taking about a 30-60% increase in efficiency, which is nuts.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

I have nothing to contribute here, except to give thanks for a high quality post 👍

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Important note rde’s can have more than one detonation wave, most cfd simulations and prototypes have 2 or 3 chasing each other. The challenge being keeping all of them moving at the same speed so as not to flame out etc…

Edit: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rotating-detonation-engine-with-two-shocks_fig1_323353046

The coolest thing here is we can remove compressors from engines with this approach. That’s huge complexity just poof gone and weight. And that’s ignoring the efficiency gained from these guys.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago
[–] bigredgiraffe 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Oh man RDREs are so cool! the other commenter explained it better than I ever could but also here are some great videos about it for further fun!

ETA: I forgot the coolest one! NASA’s own test video

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

The title talks about getting there faster, but the article doesn’t go into specifics. Does anyone know how long a trip would currently take vs how long a trip with the new engine would take (theoretically)

[–] cholesterol 1 points 11 months ago

'Faster' should be read as 'make it technologically feasible faster', yeah? Not that the engine itself can reduce the travel time to Mars in a meaningful way.