Can’t we just bypass Congress to immediately transfer weapons to Ukraine instead? That seems to be 1) the more important conflict, and 2) an actual “morally just” conflict where our support can make a real difference, and 3) an amazing return on investment and a pittance compared to what the Ukrainians themselves are having to sacrifice.
this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
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The difference might be that Israel has the financial ability to buy such weapons while Ukraine relies on funding from the US and other countries. The White House can probably green lit the sale of arms to Israel but not the transfer to Ukraine as that would involve the government paying on which Congress has oversight. I could be completely wrong though.
Israel consistently receives an annual aid package of 3 billion dollars from the U.S., a fixed amount regardless of relative peace or conflict. However, due to the ongoing genocide, they're receiving extra funds this year. This parallels a scenario where if I give you 10 dollars, and you spend the same amount on something from me, the financial interaction remains balanced, akin to the U.S.-Israel financial dynamics.
You have a good point here, didn't even think about that at first. It's of course always about the money...
Use the funds from other countries aid to buy us arms
Sell rides on Air Force Two to pay for stuff. Nobody needs KH anywhere anyway.
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You have been permanently banned from c/Conservative.
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Biden needs to tell Netanyahu to fuck off. Biden is killing his chances at reelection with this. And with that, democracy in America cuz we all know trumps fascist plans. I am fucking furious about this.
Why can’t he just be a normal president and funnel weapons to terrorist enemies of the state using the CIA black account. $150mil is a literal drop in the bucket for DOD cost centers that legally cannot be audited.
The Dems win one election and throw it all away trying to appease fascists, only for fascists to choose their guy instead and further drive away the left.
Liberals just can’t stop aiding fascists, real fucking curious how it just keeps happening throughout history.
Except this time after 80 years of suppression of leftist ideology, nobody is here to fight for the liberals. I’ll watch them get dragged to camps with a smile on my face. Yknow since I’ll already be in the camp anyway.
You’d have to be an idiot to vote for trump regardless of whatever Biden is doing
Nobody is going to vote for Trump because of this. But it WILL cause enough folks to get dejected and not vote at all, and that's all it'll take for Trump to win. Democrats need a candidate people can be excited about voting for, or they WILL lose.
The "but the other guy is worse!" approach won't work this time.
I’ve in no way shape or form voted or would vote Republican in my life, lol
But we deserve another option. I think Biden will lose
ranked choice when
When the GOP and Dems both think they'd do better if we had other options than them.
I.e. trick them
Why are you acting like he's not doing this of his own desire? Biden is a zionist like 99% of other American politicians. Netanyahu isn't making him do this. He's just doing it.
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Maybe if Ukranians would start committing war crimes they'd be luckier with the US government.. just saying..
They would need to be doing that to brown people we have no interest in using to maintain the petro dollar.
Oh yeah, forgot that detail..
Israel is trading money for arms. We allow the president to authorize those sales. Ukraine is requesting that we give them shit. Financial appropriations require congress to approve. I don't think it's a matter of committing war crimes. If Ukraine wants to buy arms, I think Biden can bypass congress for those sales, too.
Hope bombing brown people in Gaza for a few months is worth losing the republic.
Oh no, Netanyahu is now saying this will take at least a year...
Isn't this an urban conflict in a dense city full of civilians? How on earth are 155mm artillery shells being justified?
For use in southern Lebanon? Deterrence for anyone else thinking of joining the conflict?
Also didn’t sound right to me.
Lemme get this straight. We’ve put significant restrictions on Ukraine using US provided gear, against targets inside of other countries. Because runaway escalation would be bad.
But we’re supposedly cool if the IDF, then or at some point in the future, without prior approval or permission, uses US hardware against targets inside of other countries? Make it make sense, the justification for both countries is defensive wars against invading neighbors
Even if they went through Congress, that group can't even pass gas at this point...
It was so bad in the last year that npr wrote an article about it.
What "emergency determination"? Is the IDF losing actually?
More info from a different article that provides context:
Bypassing Congress with emergency determinations for arms sales is an unusual step that has in the past met resistance from lawmakers, who normally have a period of time to weigh in on proposed weapons transfers and, in some cases, block them.
In May 2019, then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo made an emergency determination for an $8.1 billion sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan after it became clear that the Trump administration would have trouble overcoming lawmakers’ concerns about the Saudi and UAE-led war in Yemen.
Pompeo came under heavy criticism for the move, which some believed may have violated the law because many of the weapons involved had yet to be built and could not be delivered urgently. But he was cleared of any wrongdoing after an internal investigation.
At least four administrations have used the authority since 1979. President George H.W. Bush’s administration used it during the Gulf War to get arms quickly to Saudi Arabia.
As others pointed out, this appears to only apply to arms sales, not for aid packages as in the case of Ukraine.
More info from The Intercept for even more context on Bidens efforts to get weapons to israel at all cost. Note that Biden does not have a team like this for Ukraine.
The Pentagon is working to expedite weapons exports to Israel by deploying a so-called Tiger Team of experts to facilitate the transfers, according to procurement records reviewed by The Intercept. Some of the arms sales will be carried out through a new Army initiative designed specifically for the provision of weapons to Israel.
The Israel-specific program, called the Israel Significant Initiatives Group, is located within the Army’s Defense Exports and Cooperation office, which oversees policy for U.S. arms sales.
The Tiger Team meets daily with the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency, or DSCA, which executes U.S. arms sales, to overcome barriers to arms sales to Israel. The “tiger team,” a crisis rapid response team involving a diverse set of experts, is supposed to examine potential bottlenecks and delays in weapons transfers and offer advice for alleviating the issues.
“This shows that at all levels of government, from policy to implementation, the Biden Administration is doing all it can to rush arms to Israel despite President Biden’s recent explicit statement that Israel’s bombing of Gaza is ‘indiscriminate,’ and despite extensive reporting that the arms we are providing are causing massive civilian casualties,” said Paul, who resigned from the State Department in protest of the Biden administration’s ongoing weapons assistance to Israel. “This will not be a proud moment for the Biden Administration, the State Department – or for DSCA.”
As for the rest of your post, I think the big difference is that those countries actually buy the weapons with oil money whereas israel just gets tens of billions of free dollars from US taxpayers. These "sales" will be refunded to them in a jiffy. They're likely using a loan to fund it anyways.
Biden could probably approve a loan to Ukraine and then "sell" them the weapons or use some other legalese BS if he actually wanted to.
It looks like there's some precedent for workarounds that FDR used to aid the UK when Isolationists didn't want to help during WWII, and that Biden has already been doing a good chunk of it. Without direct cash, I do think there are fewer options, but I'm curious what will happen if an aid package isn't passed by Congress in early 2024 once the current one runs out.
Politico: The WWII Strategy Biden Can Use to Bypass Republicans on Ukraine
Roosevelt’s effort to arm Britain ran the gamut from outright executive fiat (bases for destroyers, surplus transfers) to skillful negotiation with Congress (cash and carry, lend-lease). But there was a common thread running through these maneuvers: The United States never appropriated direct military assistance to the United Kingdom. It traded stuff for stuff. Allowed the British military to buy war materiel from private manufacturers and transport it on British ships. Offloaded “surplus” goods.
...
Biden faces a similar set of circumstances. To sustain America’s support of Ukraine, he will need to find creative ways to bypass the handful of GOP congressmen who currently enjoy functional control of the House. He already enjoys some leeway. Last year, he signed into law a latter-day version of the Lend Lease Act, patterned after the original law, that allows him to lease military equipment to Ukraine on a five-year basis. He might also look for ways to use NATO or other allies as a middleman in the transfer of arms.
Yep there we go, good job for finding it out.
The "Biden can't do it" is just plausible deniabilty bullshit. Biden is a Zionist that likes doing Nazi shit more than doing something morally correct.
Israel received $3.18B in FY 2022 compared to $11.8B for Ukraine.
Edit to add a quote from the link:
In 2021, U.S. obligations to Israel amounted to $3.31 billion, a figure that saw Israel returning to the top spot among aid recipients that year. But in 2022, the U.S. committed $12 billion to Ukraine in its defense against Russia’s invasion, far exceeding Israel’s $3.18 billion that year. While some figures are still considered “partial,” total U.S. aid globally for 2022 currently adds up to more than $60 billion, a level not seen since 1951.
It'll be interesting to see what that chart looks like for 2023 and 2024. And hopefully there's less genocide all around, eh?
Israel received 1/4 the money of Ukraine in 2022 when israel wasn't even fighting anyone.
At best they used it to shoot and kill an American journalist and then launch a propaganda campaign to lie that they didn't do it
And of course give all their ZioNazi colonists weapons to terrorize and annex the West Bank with
I found more up-to-date numbers that suggest it's more like 23x the aid (Ukraine:Israel):
How Much Aid Has the U.S. Sent Ukraine? Here Are Six Charts.
In any event, the US appears to have sent substantial aid to Ukraine, and it's in jeopardy only (to my knowledge) if congress can't get more through in early 2024. My understanding is that the war-specific funding (so far) requested by the Biden administration for Israel has been more to the tune of $14B requested for 2023 (e.g. this article), concurrent with a roughly-quadruple $60B+ request for Ukraine (this article).
It seems to me that the Biden administration is strongly in support for Ukraine, and is making (and, historically, getting through) requests for continued aid far in excess of those to Israel (which receives multi-billion-dollar aid from the U.S. every year and under every administration). Biden's only non-standard "funding" here is authorizing sale of arms to Israel, which is in place of any congressional funding due to the unpopularity of the Israel war in the USA (which is unpopular for a variety of, in my opinion, very good reasons).
To be clear: I'm not suggesting that the U.S.A. should blindly fund genocide. I'm simply arguing that continued (substantial) funding for Ukraine hasn't been in jeopardy until recently, and that it is still not a guarantee that extraordinary measures (beyond what Biden has already done with the lend-lease-style "loaning" of US Arms to Ukraine, etc.) will be necessary or helpful, given the broad support in the US Congress (to date) for the war in Ukraine. My expectation is that the Democrats in congress will make some concessions to the Republicans in congress, and a Ukraine funding package will pass early in the new year.
TL;DR: equating the funding of Ukraine to the funding of the war in Israel and using it to suggest the Biden administration hasn't adequately attempted to fund Ukraine doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
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I'm just gonna bypass him on the ballot this year.
"the urgency of their defensive needs". I didn't know bombing children hospitals was a defense tactic. If that's the case, they have a great defense.
Then emperor Turnip Dump will bypass your civil rights when he sends your family to the internment camps
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