this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2024
208 points (97.3% liked)

politics

20424 readers
6054 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In 2017, Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress tried to eviscerate the A.C.A. and almost succeeded in passing a bill that the Congressional Budget Office estimated would have left 22 million more Americans uninsured by 2026. There’s every reason to believe that if the G.O.P. wins control of Congress and the White House in November, it will once again try to bring back the bad old days of health coverage. And it will probably succeed, since it failed in 2017 only thanks to a principled stand by John McCain — something unlikely to happen in today’s Republican Party, where slavish obedience to Trump has become almost universal.

If you want to preserve that access to health insurance, it's worth checking your voter registration, getting involved as a volunteer for the Democrats and doing what you can afford to provide financial support

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] cyd 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It’s not as if healthcare costs have some inherent reason to increase along with wealth.

Well, there are several big reasons. For example, doctors and nurses in the USA have much higher pay than those in Europe. Part of this is because of policy differences (e.g., the supply of US doctors is artificially restricted by the AMA). But part of it is simply that educated professionals are paid much more in the USA than in Europe, and it's nothing specific to healthcare.

The point is that when making comparisons between US and other rich countries, the first thing you have to do is to account for the fact that Americans (i) have higher GDP per capita, and (ii) have higher levels of consumption even after compensating for GDP per capita. That should be the first-order effect, with stuff like the public-versus-private issue as second-order effects.

I do agree with the benefits to the US not being proportional to the cost, to a point. Lots of healthcare spending goes into things that don't really benefit aggregate outcomes, like heroic interventions that end up extending end-of-life by a few months, or treatments that only benefit one-in-a-million conditions. But this is not just an issue for the US; for example, the UK spends 18x on healthcare per capita compared to Thailand, for 2 extra years of life expectancy. And those individuals who get their lives extended by a small amount, or get their rare condition treated, may have different views on the matter.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Doctors are paid more, but still a small slice of healthcare costs. Doctors in the US working entirely for free would barely make a dent. All administrative costs, including doctors and nurses salaries, but also our bloated health care administration, add up to 8%. A lot of the extra administration costs are also things like all the staff needed just to interface with the giant mess of different payers including multiple private and government programs, all with different documentation and billing requirements.

The insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, medical device and equipment companies, and private equity owners of hospitals and practices who are all reaping windfall profits at the expense of patients love to direct the blame to doctors though.

[–] GrymEdm 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
  • Doctor salaries do not account for the 550 billion dollar pharma industry or the 1.7 trillion dollar health insurance industry. As a comparison, Canada's health industry is 112 billion USD. The USA's population is 8.4x greater, 8.4x112 billion = 940 billion instead of 1,700 billion (1.7 trillion).

  • Canadian doctors earn 3rd most in the world, around 200k/year. US doctors earn about 117k more a year. There are just over a million doctors in the USA = about 117 billion dollars which brings the cost from 940 billion to 1.057 trillion instead of 1.7 trillion.

  • I don't give a damn about GDP/consumption and have explained why in detail. You keep on saying the same thing, but you're not going to convince me that US healthcare should be more expensive to the tune of 700 billion/year because Americans buy more electronics, vehicles, etc. Especially given that wealth inequality means there's a huge variance in what people can afford.

  • With regards to pharma, other developed nations pay less than 1/3rd for the same medicine, which nullifies any inherent cost argument. Americans pay much more for medicine just because of allowed corporate greed.

  • I acknowledged that there's more to life expectancy than cost of healthcare, but we don't need to compare the UK to Thailand. We can compare the US to Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Japan, Korea, etc to see that it's more expensive and yet does not extend American life expectancy past that of cheaper countries. If you read my links, you'll see that the US has low doctors per capita, and high avoidable deaths per 100k when compared to peer nations - proof that Americans are not getting more for their money.

  • In order for your point about heroic interventions etc. to be valid in a US vs. other developed nations argument, you'd have to prove that the other countries are not saving their citizens (otherwise it's a wash, with both groups saving seriously ill patients). Not only would the US have to be saving their citizens where others don't, but they'd have to be doing so in large enough quantities to skew national statistics.

  • Even if experts agreed that the US system was great, I'd disagree because I can see the real-world end results. It's not ethical that doctors have to argue/plead with profit-motivated insurance accountants to properly treat their patient. It's not ethical when a seriously ill/wounded patient in a hospital is trying to figure out how they are going to deal with medical debt/bankruptcy that's going to leave them impoverished.

  • However, I don't need to worry about that dilemma because experts are not fans of the US for-profit system. As I've provided several links to prove, both economists and medical professionals regularly publish criticisms of the USA's expensive, under-performing healthcare.