this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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Valve could reduce their cut honestly, perhaps some program for independent developers to help them get on their feet. I don't think the top games or big publishers should be getting cut reductions.
Either way, Valve haven't been buying out studios for exclusive games, so Epic and Sweeney can go fuck themselves, they are scum.
At the same time it's not like Valve is not making use of the extra money to use it only for taking in profits. It might of been what made it possible to try entering the hardware market with VR and the Steam Deck and putting resources in trying to make Linux gaming for accessible for regular people. Might of been what allowed them to not be deterred after the failure of the Steam machine and Steam Controller.
Might have, brother. Might have.
Why do I see this online so often? Is it an educational thing? Is it an auto correct thing? Or something other? I am not a native speaker, so I have no clue how this happens.
My understanding is folks tend to gravitate towards that because it's indeed very close to might've and whatnot phonetically. My anecdotal experience as a non-native speaker is we tend to be less affected since we usually tackle speaking and listening more seriously after we've already familiarized ourselves enough with writing/reading, grammar and vocab.
Bone apple tea
Pretty much the tl;dr here, yeah 🤣
It blows my mind as well. My native language is Spanish, but for me it's way easier to follow language rules properly in English. May have something to do with the fact that my native language is my regular language for expression, so I don't pay much mind to how I use it, but English being a second language, I actually try to make sure I'm understood. Anyway, that's what I think could potentially be the reason.
Yes no maybe I don't know 🎶
Can you repeat the question.
Lol. Good to see I'm not the only one that sees the impact in not using proper language rules 🤣
If I recall correctly valve did lower their cut in the wake of EGS having better terms for devs.
For the first $10m earned it's 30%, then it's 25% until $50m, then it's 20% from then on.
Ok yeah that’s still pretty shitty
Why?
If steam has to do the work to host the game then the majority of effort is going to be getting to the published and available to buy step, which is recouped along with server costs early on. As it scales, the efficiencies kick in and the price gets lowered a bit.
A company keeping 70% of retail price is still a higher cut than they would get for a game on a shelf at a store, and most likely with a far higher number of sales through steam. Plus it is digital so they don't have all the physical distribution costs. For smaller games those additional costs and advertising are going to keep them from being feasible.
Valheim and Palworld wouldn't have been massive successes on store shelves. 30% for visibility and unlimited scaling if the game is more successful than expected is a pretty good deal for the benefits it provides. It actually does buy something, it isn't the mob's cut for pretending to protect your business.
It's the other overheads too, publishing cuts, marketing cuts, QA etc before you get down to the money made for wages etc.
Valve are absolutely in a position to take less, but the service they provide is like no other.
I don't give a fuck about EA/Ubisoft etc getting a smaller cut, but independent developers could absolutely benefit from some sort of program.
Plus the income lets them take care of their employees, and to the best of my understanding it is a pretty good working environment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/valve/comments/bwxp6g/i_worked_at_valve_a_few_years_back_and_i_could/?xpromo_edp=enabled
Food for thought!
Many studios are in a real pinch right now. I don’t know what valve’s overhead costs are but I’d imagine they could afford to kick back some more to devs.
Many studios are in a real pinch because the executives are fucking awful and the first people they punish are the people who would also never get raises because Valve took 12% instead of 20%.
The real difference is for games that don't sell a lot of copies, that don't reach that 20% at $50 million in sales and 25% at $10 million in sales. We're talking about really small games at this point. Even games like Factorio should be around this $50 million in sales point with 3.5 million sales although idk how much for each sale with regional pricing.
We'd honestly be pretty hard-pressed to come up with a game small enough to be in the 30% cut tier but also a game where the cut is what makes or breaks the game instead of market saturation. I agree that Steam should lower the cut they take but I do not believe in the crap Sweeny spits about caring for devs while also making the devs who work for him do so much overtime.
He doesn't mean "devs" he means "profits" that he will never share with devs, he just can't play with your emotions and make you care as the trickle down economics never come around again.
It should be reversed so that small devs don't get shafted for not being able to sell millions of dollars worth of copies of their game. The ones making tens of millions of dollars should be paying more.
Was about to ask what's with all the shilling here but just realized which community this is. Have fun shilling for a mega Corp. Go tell yourselves that 30% cut isn't ridiculous.
Okay, so you say a 30% cut is ridiculous.
But let's move that away from the mega Corp [sic] everyone here is supposedly shilling for. Let's talk about cuts lost to distribution and delivery for a second.
I cannot answer this for a lot of industries, but for example for board games ~7%-9% go to the actual designer. That's 91%-93% that is lost along the way. Even if we take Sweeney's 25% example that the devs get, that's still 3x-3.5x as much as for physical products.
This would indicate that digital distribution is far better than physical for developers making games, as they get a vastly bigger percentage of the money. Within the digital space, we can compare things a little bit, at least for video games.
Digital storefronts seem to roughly all come out at 30%, for which Valve provides more value than say Google or Apple, as they also give you forums, mod integrations, and various dev tool to use to simplify development of your game's modding and multiplayer features.
We also know that consoles are pricier, as you have to pay certification costs for updates on top of the original distribution, and in a way this is true of the mobile stores, too.
Now, don't get me wrong: 30% is a ton of money, and I cannot see where a rich company needs this much money. However, I would argue they're one of the last companies to tackle in improving as far as them not taking excessive money goes, and everyone else (Google, Apple, MS, Sony, even Epic considering how they do fuck all for the 12% cut they take) should get impacted first, plus it's still difficult to argue that digital cut is excessive to begin with comparing the vastly improved developer cut comparing the physical distribution space - as good as I can compare board games vs video games, granted. But I would estimate that the overhead costs of physical sales for video games aren't that different, manufacture, shipping, it's all comparable after all. Video games need less container space, but they also sell for less.
Overall, calling a 30% cut "ridiculous" is patently false. It is the industry standard.
Digital marketplaces use a near monopoly to extort developers into accepting these inflated cuts. I simply will never accept an inflated rate caused by a monopoly as a good thing. Without that near monopoly there is no way they could maintain a 30% cut.
I admit, it sounds high to me - like I said above. But I also got 0 clue, for all I know 80% of that are their costs. 🤷 Lack knowledge to judge that. At least in digital space 70% go to the makers, and usually 20-25% remain at the end, not 2%-8% like with physical goods.
I think the high profit margin on digital goods is almost entirely due to the more efficient distribution of the Internet vs a supply chain, not because steam enabled it. If anyone deserves that cut because of the lower cost of distribution it's the people that created the Internet, and thank God they were publicly funded scientists and not corporations.
Also keep in mind that the infrastructure of the Internet charges a usage fee, not a percentage of profit. If I change $5 for a game on steam vs $60, is steam really doing more work to justify a percentage fee?
To be fair, Steam provides a lot more than "just being a storefront". There's large feature set there in Steamworks which is 'free' for developers to use.
The game developers would probably spend more than 30% of revenue hosting their own game on their own store, so the value is there already.
It would be strange if Valve's cut went up the more money your game made, but it would be better for independent developers.
That tells me you don't understand what they offer or the value of it.
And if you think hosting a CDN across the world is cheap, you have a surprise coming. Ignoring the fact Steam has a large audience and hosting your own game would bring in a lot less revenue than you would through Steam (even with the 30% cut), it's a lot of work to host and market a game online. If there's updates, you have to alert people the game has been updated and direct them to download it again.
Valve Index was successful, Steam link was great, Steam Deck is great, the Steam controller was good in it's own right and it's trackpads are now one of the best features of the Deck. They can experiment with hardware because of the profits, they can afford for them to "flop". Now Linux gaming is a lot better because of Proton too.
Not that I agree with the 30% cut in it's entirety, I think they could subsidise more for small independent developers.
I do think Valve could drop it to 25% and not lose much sleep over their coffers.
I mean I don't know how much money steam is banking, but they provide quite a good service for their share.
Max download rates at all times (almost).
Amazing steam overlay. Online gaming. Online saves. Workshop. Linux support.
And many more. Some of that epic has too but in comparison epic launcher is shit.
It would effectively not do anything for game devs to reduce it by 5%.
On the dev side steam provides distribution and a bunch of tools while you develop your game. Tomorrow you can pay 100$, and steam will support you with keys, releasing and publishing your game, reviewing it for free etc.
I have a game I've been developing for 5 years part time. I have steam keys I share with testers, and can distribute version for free, with all the patch notes and update features from steam for 100$.
When I do release, they'll have earned the 30%, and if I don't release I'll have saved a ton and steam will take the costs. This greatly reduces the barrier to self-publishing. Out of all the companies I deal with, this is by far the fairest and lest predatory model there is. Gaben could have just bled us of our money even more and it would have worked. They are very rich because they are very humble in a sense.
I think Steam's cut should probably be something like
0.05 * (log(x) + 1)where x is number of copies sold.You mean that games need to have 100 000 copies sold to get to the 30% cut?
Yes. It would mean that small indie games with low sales wouldn't be hit as hard by Steam taking a cut, and huge hits that sell millions of copies would help subsidize this.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/why-valve-actually-gets-less-than-30-percent-of-steam-game-sales/
Awesome article, see? Just like Apple and Google... No, wait, I was thinking of a parallel reality. Never mind.
The reason big studios get better rate is because they have leverage. Just as Amazon has leverage against apple in app store
Its based off revenue, obviously more revenue made overall gives Valve more money with less cut than small revenue at a larger cut.