this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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Guys. Vote in your interests. Sure Biden might be a complicit war criminal but the other guy is a domestic criminal who would be an enthusiastic war criminal given half a chance.
Secure your country from the Putin's pet orangutan for another four years, then rake Biden across the coals.
If we're lucky, we won't have to deal with either of them in 2028.
I agree with you and I'd like to point out we've done studies and found that "Russiagate" in 2016 was a big nothingburger. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/09/russian-trolls-twitter-had-little-influence-2016-voters/
Democrats don't want to hear it, though, because it's a very convenient excuse for their own failings. Just like them blaming Bernie Bros, despite Bernie supporters voting for Clinton in larger numbers than Clinton supporters voted for Obama 8 years prior.
They simply don't want to take responsibility for their own actions (and inaction).
There are a lot of reasons to be suspicious about trump when it comes to colluding with foreign powers, and there is even some evidence. I agree that people often take it too far, into the conspiracy theory territory. But I don't think it's quite comparable with QAnon, either in feasibility, or in scope, or in the problematic effects that it may have.
Also, the American system is, at best, only semi-democratic. The politicians are the ones who determine who is in power, much more than the people who actually vote. Are the citizens really responsible for what politicians we have? Am I responsible, as a man who votes conscientiously, who has campaigned during important elections, and yet does not have any real influence in who gets elected? Is the average person, who is just barely getting by, really expected to change the system by themselves?
We need systemic change, but we have no class consciousness, and we are not likely to get there. These facts are manipulated by the people in power.
I don’t know what country you live in but that sure is a lot of words that don’t really mean anything.
Can you please elaborate on what the “foreign agent bullshit” you’re talking about is?
And can you please also explain how said bullshit is akin to how republicans are blaming Qanaon? (And also please explain what republicans are “blaming” Qanon for, as it’s my understanding that most republicans are followers of Qanon, not critics.)
If you are a bot account I am sorry for putting you through the wringer as it’s my first day.
Hey yeah, I should stop picking on that Putin guy! 😁
I said Trump was Putin's pet. He's a foreign agent only by happenstance and perhaps through manipulation.
And Trump is Putin's pet.
Why do you think a conspiracy is necessary for Trump to be Putin's pet?
You seem to be convinced that I'm some kind of conspiracy theorist but I already told you I think Trump is a "Russian agent" through happenstance.
Try not jumping to conclusions
I didn't say anything about a conspiracy with Russia, and I certainly didn't say anything about George Soros (I assume)
Are you okay?
You're too much, buddy.
You are the one who jumped to a conclusion and proceeded to liken me to a nazi. Quoting classical thinkers won't change that.
That you are all rage and no content
I did not realize that was content. You surely don't expect some stranger on the internet to infer some deeper meaning to being likened to a nazi? In what way am I like a nazi?
How is it a straw man? It's a clear implication of your words. Explain how else your position could be interpreted.
I did. Twice now. Given the context, there is no other interpretation. Go ahead and downvote this too. It won't make you right, but I bet it makes you feel like you won something.
At least mine isn't stuck in a box. You gotta let it breath bro.
So... When your choices are between two war criminals, your first thought isn't that the system needs change but that we should vote for the war criminal with a track record of war crimes?
The system needs to change, but with one of those criminals it's slow progress in the right direction and with the other it's a sprint towards fascism. Take your pick.
lol
Great contribution to the conversation. Laugh if you want, but voting for Democrats in general elections and voting progressive in primaries is the only way this country will make any progress. Push for ranked choice and other non-FPTP voting systems to get people better representation.
But there has been no progress during my lifetime (well not here and not in the US, there might have been some progress in other parts of the world). In fact, whenever we had "left"-liberals in power here in Germany, the march towards the right only accelerated, as they adopted right-wing neoliberal policies and took at least part their base with them over to the right, and the rest gets marginalized. We've had some fatal damage done to the welfare state, worker's rights and the anti-war movement, all by the social democrats and greens.
Your affirmation that there is "slow progress" is clearly not true. There was some progress before I was born, but as far as I can tell, that had nothing at all to do with voting for the lesser evil.
Are we talking about the US or Germany? And how long have you been alive? Things like legalized gay marriage, legalized marijuana (not federally but in many states), healthcare that can't deny people because of pre-existing conditions are all examples of progress that have come in the last 15 years. There's still a long way to go even on those things I mentioned, but ignoring that progress is needlessly pessimistic.
Sure but it’s always like one small step forward and two large steps back. Abortion was made illegal in many states. US domestic surveillance of its own citizens has increased dramatically and gone unchallenged. Housing and healthcare costs have continued to outpace wage growth. Inequality has increased unabated. Green energy remains woefully underfunded. I could go on.
You may have not noticed that there's one side of the government severely holding back all of those efforts.
You have to understand that in this dynamic, both sides of the electoral spectrum play a role in moving us to the right.
The liberals can do certain things that the conservatives wouldn't be able to get through, and the conservatives can do certain things that the liberals wouldn't be able to do. But the leadership of those parties are captured by the capitalist class. They sell out and mislead their base. It's all part of class warfare. And since I was born, the working class has been on the losing side, no matter whether social democrats or conservatives are in power.
Just as an example, our so-called center-left coalition just passed the most far-right deportation policy, and supported the most far-right EU immigration law (which fascists like Italy's Meloni where very happy about). Why them and not Merkel? Because without the support of the Greens (and their support networks and associated media), no serious, organized and mainstream opposition to these far-right laws is possible. Previously, all these people would lobby and protest and make a stink in mainstream media about these sorts of dehumanizing laws. But the leadership of the Green party switched sides, and withdrew all institutional support, and now this stuff can get passed with barely a peep of protest.
Agreed. Trump's recent rhetoric has been about dictatorship not presidency. It increasingly appears like a trump win would be the last election for a while.
Sadly, frustratingly, infuriatingly true.
When is your election and what is your plan to "change the system" before then?
When will sweet death take them?
Hopefully before it takes us