this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
147 points (98.0% liked)

science

15008 readers
221 users here now

A community to post scientific articles, news, and civil discussion.

rule #1: be kind

<--- rules currently under construction, see current pinned post.

2024-11-11

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

A team of psychologists, social scientists, philosophers and evolutionary researchers affiliated with multiple institutions in the U.S. has found evidence suggesting that the slight advantage males have in navigation ability is likely due to differences in the ways male and female children are raised.

In their paper published in the journal Royal Society Open Science, the group describes how they studied navigational skills in multiple species to find out if there might be an evolutionary basis for one gender or the other having better skills.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] saltesc 64 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I swear almost everything in gender differences comes down to how people are raised. Parents gender train kids and that shit sticks.

[–] Zeth0s 26 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

That is scientifically untrue. Male and female have very different biology, this is why diseases have different distribution, and drugs different effects. Biological differences are the vast majority, and can be easily studied statistically

There are also cultural differences. But saying that most or all differences are cultural is pretty dangerous.

Edit. Corrected wrong edit

[–] CleoTheWizard 21 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ill be that guy. The comment before yours was mostly referring to gender whereas yours refers more to sex. Two separate concepts. I’d agree with both of you that the sexes are different physically, but our gender stuff is mostly just meme perceptions and not descriptive of reality.

This claim about men’s natural sense of direction is an old myth but it’s important because it affects our ideas of gender being unequal (not sex).

[–] Zeth0s 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I have no idea if there is a difference in orientation abilities but if it exists, it would clearly be biological. I am happy it is a urban legend.

But nowadays too many people claim that male and female are identical with the exception of the penis. And it is pretty dangerous. Any trans person who transitioned can say how different their bodies and feelings are by just changing the amount of few hormones.

The fact that my comment has as many downvotes as upvotes demonstrated that the fact that biological differences exists are not so well known

[–] CleoTheWizard -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The reason you were downvoted is because you conflated their comment about gender with one about sex. That’s all.

I don’t see many people conflating the sexes at all really. I just don’t think it matters much to people. Sex is mostly irrelevant unless you’re a medical or scientific professional. The only reason I’ve ever seen anyone concerned about sex differences is because they want to invalidate trans people and claim their gender must align with their sex.

[–] Zeth0s 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

We are talking of a case that, if true, would be a biological difference.

Sex is not irrelevant, and thinking that talking about biological differences is done to invalidate trans... I mean, it's a problem of the reader biases. The downvoters should think twice that the world is not made of people trying to invalidate trans people. I am fine with whatever a trans person does. Also because many trans people have biological characteristics that can be in between. Biologically, trans people are a universe of biological differences, they are not a single bucket. If I had to talk about trans people, I'd talk about trans people.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We are talking of a case that, if true, would be a biological difference.

Isn't the point of this entire post that it isn't biological, but rather cultural?

[–] saltesc 2 points 11 months ago

To clarify, the comment I replied was modified. It initially mentioned that almost all male/female differences are cultural. It was modified to refer to gender. I'll leave my comment unedited because of the discussion below.

See how your comments have little pencil icons in the top-right and mine does not?

You also glossed over the words "almost everything" which initially I thought were unnecessary for obvious reasons, but thought I better add just in case some idiot comes along and starts hurdy-during.

Frankly, I'm inpressed. I didn't anticipate someone to be so full of shit, clearly. You win purely on brazen effort. I don't know what the prize is, but I don't want it.

[–] bouh -4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Your comment is mostly wrong. There are differences in biology, but it comes down to Y chromosome basically. Most differences are cultural.

Cultural differences lead to huge differences in the observable statistics. That's the mistake you make in your comment: observable statistics can't make the difference between a cultural or biological origin for anything. Because behaviour (and this culture) will immensely affect the biology. Like doing sport or washing your hands or diet or whatever.

[–] SpacetimeMachine 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Saying "it comes down to y chromosome basically" is extremely reductive. The way minor genes are expressed can result in vast differences in biology.

[–] Zeth0s 3 points 11 months ago

Thanks for bringing it up, I didn't want to be "that guy"... People think as if complexity of genetics is measured in meters of DNA. When they'll find out that humans and chimps share 99% of DNA

[–] Zeth0s 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Unfortunately it is not, yours however is uninformed. One doesn't measure genetics in meters of DNA. The difference between chimps and humans is just 1% of genome, and their difference are not mostly cultural because they have almost identical DNA. Genetics is so complex that changes in a single gene can have enormous difference in the physiology of a system.

There are a lot of misconception about genetics and males/females differences, such that their differences are almost all cultural. Mainly because people confuse sexes and genders

[–] bouh 1 points 11 months ago

And this is completely beside the point.

I was talking about your assertion about statistics. It's complete bullshit because statistics don't differentiate between biology and culture by themselves.

Hopefully this shorter version is easier to understand.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Not physical strength and size. That's straight up hormonal differences. Ask any female bodybuilder, building muscle is more than twice as hard.

[–] Someology 4 points 11 months ago

Yes, but in the lingo of the 2020s, that is not a gender difference. It is a sex difference. Yes, I know this was not always the case. I've read old dictionaries, but at the moment, that's the usage.

[–] kofe -1 points 11 months ago

There's still plenty of overlap between the bell curves for average people, and anyway, how much does that difference matter? We share 50% DNA with bananas and the like .0000001% (someone else can do the math) difference between sexes results in social conditioning like your message here. Why?