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I'm concerned about 2024. So many voters were asked to hold our nose and vote for conservative Joe Biden, but he's made it harder and harder to do.
He started off on the wrong foot by opening more concentration camps and sending his VP on an embarrassing gaslighting mission to Latin America, and it has just continued to get worse since then.
My expectations were already abysmally low to begin with, but even I didn't have "openly supporting a genocidal state" on my bingo card.
I think I still need to vote for him because of Republicans, but my God it will be hard to live with myself after I do.
This sentence will be ignored by combative centrist genocide apologists. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone.
Thank you for this.
No, no, you'll be able to smugly hold your moral superiority over the others in the concentration camps after enough folks stay home because of all the baseless BS being spewed.
I summoned one.
Appears thou doth protest too much.
You lot cost us Female Bodily Autonomy with your last immature tantrum. If you succeed this time, there likely won't be another opportunity for you to learn the lesson you ignored from 2016.
But don't let that stop you. Hold your breath until you get your way. Just as effective.
I voted for Clinton in 2016. I voted for Biden in 2020, and I intend to vote for Biden in 2024.
Do you have any other incorrect assumptions to make about me because I don't support genocide as hard as you want me to?
Which is a pretty damn good predictor that he's going to lose. Nobody wins an election by everyone sighing and saying "fuck guess we gotta vote for them," just look at Hillary. DNC is once again shrugging their shoulders and saying "we've tried nothing and are all out of ideas," so guess it's on the U.S. people to save democracy. They've got a real...great track record.
we're gonna have to save democracy without the democrat's help, which isn't an issue because they were part of the problem to begin with
imagine if the republicans ran like democrats. would you switch to voting for a supposedly pro-choice pro-gay moderate republican? no? why are we told to expect the opposite, especially from a more propagandized group of voters?
And yet it feels like they really do have us over the fire, and the best they can do is call us Russian trolls and tell us to cope. That's the best they have to offer.
Meanwhile, I have friends and loved ones being detained, deported, or worse -- and they call me privileged if I complain about it.
I've literally been accused of de facto voting for Trump even when I disclose that I voted for genocide Joe. It's cultlike and weird.
it is. I think they're just scared and clinging to "vote blue no matter who" as a security blanket while the party acts like controlled opposition. I wonder what they'll think when their strategy loses.
They'll blame us, again. They'll blame leftists and progressives for not voting for their next bad candidate
Because the alternative is fascists taking over. They'll think the same thing we all thought in 2017 when a bunch of clueless fools bought the "both sides" Russian propaganda.
Lemmy is insanely loaded with said fools, literally every political thread is astroturfed with them.
Unfortunately America is a two-party system, it's baked into how the voting works. Occasionally the identity of which two parties are the two parties changes, but not very often.
However, that doesn't mean that there are only two possible candidates for presidency. The time when it's "safe" to vote for a third-party candidate is during the primary elections. Incumbents like Biden still have a huge advantage in those situations but even so it's a time when protest votes can be cast without harming the end result.
I'm not sure how this relates to my comment, and it feels like a deflection from my point. Can you explain how it relates?
it's just a lie from someone who actually wants the right wing policies of joe biden and doesn't want you to disrupt that
They explained a bit more in a follow-up, and I think I may have misinterpreted them, but yeah ... I'm a bit raw about it, considering the unhinged rant a lemmy.world mod brought into this thread earlier! I think a lot of Democrats are just politer Republicans who want to dupe us into thinking they're actually leftists, and they get super angry when we see the wizard behind the curtain.
my thoughts exactly, especially when "moderate" democrats win and just continue the worst policies of their republican predecessors. politics doesn't just happen ad teh ballot box and we should de-emphasize electoralism as it becomes increasingly useless at stopping fascism
I still vote, but I totally understand why people are disillusioned of the system.
The whole state is rotten. Always has been. We desperately need a real systemic change.
Some people can acknowledge the fact that we are currently stuck with FPTP without throwing tantrums that leads to far right wing policies instead of conservative joe
It was meant to build on your point, not deflect. You were lamenting about how people have to hold their noses and vote for Biden because the only other viable choice is worse. I was pointing out that there are opportunities to vote for who you "really" want, just not necessarily in the presidential election itself.
The Democrats will likely still run Biden because of the incumbency thing, but it's at least an opportunity to vote your conscience and nudge the party itself in a better direction.
Oh yeah, I fully agree! Unfortunately, the vast majority of voters in the US are right-wing. Even our Democratic voter base is overwhelmingly pro-capitalist/neoliberal. So many people brainwashed into voting against their interests. It's genuinely tragic.
And according to this thread letting literal fascists take over is the best solution. But yeah, it is the folks voting against cult45 that are voting against their best interests, sure dude.
I'm sure it doesn't matter to the people being deported and detained in those concentration camps, nor to the Palestinians being murdered by a genocidal state.
Ted Bundy was extremely polite, by all accounts, but no matter how many good acts you commit, if you're committing atrocities on the side, you're still a villain -- and when the choice is perpetually between a far-right party (Democrats) and full-blown fascists (Republicans), how long before we admit that we have an absolute dogshit system, and that we need to replace it?
And there is that good ol' pure bull shit we all knew was going to pop up from those actually wanting cult45 to take over.
Don't be hard on yourself for making the correct decision.
If someone tells you that you have swallow stale lima beans or horse shit and you pick the stale lima beans in hopes that you never have to do it again... well it sucks but those were the choices. If 4 years later you have to do the same thing again... well you do it, because eating stale lima beans is always going to be better than eating horse shit, and you're going to have to eat one of them.
You don't have to feel like the lima beans are your choice, your preference, or your fault or responsibility. They were one of two choices available, and you made the right one.
I'm old, and I've been eating stale lima beans all my life.
In 2008, I was finally promised a meal, and I even campaigned for it. But it turned out to be more stale lima beans.
This stale lima bean routine is wearing thin.
I hear you man.
But still, if it goes on for 50 more years, would it ever be better to choose to eat a horse's shit over stale lima beans? Of course not.
We need to change the menu. But that's a different problem.
The question of whether to pick lima beans or horse shit is an easy one, and one that nobody should find controversial. And you should not feel bad for making the right decision there. Remember, your kids and neighbors have to eat whatever meal you choose too.
We need to change the whole fucking restaurant tbh
And I do too. I'm not far removed from this. My husband is a first-gen immigrant, I'm gay, I have family being detained by our fascist state, and family who are trans. I don't know if I have the privilege to keep serving them stale lima beans, when the stale lima beans are slowly killing them. I desperately need a new meal.
Last time Trump got elected everyone got off their ass next time.
Maybe it’s time to take the nasty medicine to cure the disease.
The disease is the entire state and system.
You have an obligation to do that, until there's a better choice.
In the meantime, we work on changing the restaurant. But until we do that, don't feel guilty at all about choosing the better of two options!
Last time everyone had to eat horse shit they stepped up the time after that.
If no one’s smart enough to step up this time and bring a worthy candidate, then bring on the horse shit.
Maybe trump two electric Boogaloo will make everyone change their mind next time and wise up
Yikes. That's some bizarre logic. You'd actually choose to eat horse shit because maybe next time you won't have to eat horse shit, when you could just not eat horse shit now.
I don't think we can communicate on any meaningful level when you're this fundamentally irrational.
No I would rather force everyone to eat horseshit that way maybe they will put different options on the menu next time.
If you are going to use a metaphor follow it through
I didn't lose the metaphor. You just took it for a turn I didn't expect.
I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a horrible person, but here you are straight up saying, in your own words, that you'd rather eat horse shit than lima beans, and you'd rather force your children, your loved ones, and your neighbors to eat horse shit than lima beans too.
I was expecting that you'd have some amount of empathy and the sense to eat actually food over something that could make you extremely sick or kill you. But you don't. So as I said above, I don't think we can communicate on any meaningful level. You are completely irrational and lacking in empathy, and we don't value the same things.
I think in the end we actually do value the same things, the difference is I don’t think that means are worth the end anymore. If you can’t do some thing without being correct and right and you shouldn’t do it.
If we can’t get to where we want through the correct means, then we shouldn’t get there.
How you do something is just as important as what you do.
If you feed the hungry, but you do it by killing thousands of innocent children and feeding the masses their bodies, then you may have met your goal of reducing demand and increasing supply, but it wasn’t worth it.
But the scenario you outline above is literally the opposite of that.
You said you'd choose to force feed everyone horse shit instead of food if it brought about the end you desired.
You're saying the completely opposite thing now.
I think maybe we do want the same thing, but we're disconnecting at some level of this conversation and we're not going to get anywhere unless we get on the same page.
Imagine comparing supporting genocide to something as nutritious as lima beans.
Imagine using an analogy to illustrate the difference between two choices.
It seems you can't.
Lima beans are good for you and nourishing (and I find them delicious.)
If genocide nourishes you, that would explain why you're so upset at people who don't want it to happen.
I just pointed out how you're unable to understand an analogy. You don't need to provide more proof of that.
If you don't want people pointing out how your analogy is crap, don't make a crap analogy.
This is the correct mind set as it really is a binary.