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Ignoring the logic that even an insane person going on a shooting spree would want to shoot the armed people first, exactly how many mass shooting events do you think there are in comparison to smaller event shootings?
I have the answer for you. While there may be a mass shooting 20 to 50 times a year, ruling out suicides and accidents there are about 210 people shot per day.
Aside from you wanting evidence of a completely obvious thing a mass shooter would do, you're trying to compare something that happens in less than a single percent of all other shootings.
Furthermore, there are almost 12,000 robberies in the US each year using knives, over 200 by choking victims, and over 4,000 per year using blunt weapons like baseball bats. Now you can interpret or swing all those statistics whatever way you'd like, but it would stand to reason that having a visible gun on you would go two ways- either the person doesn't attack you due to fear of the weapon, or they would beat/stab you without warning or threatening the victim so they couldn't have a chance to pull their gun out. Having a concealed weapon would give you an option to take the attacker off guard if the situation arose.
I didn't bring up mass shooters. I just talked about guns as a deterrent. Other people brought up mass shooters.
What does that have to do with anything?
Okay, great. Then I'm sure you can back up this reasoning with data on how often this happens vs. how many times attackers are fended off in other ways.
Why is there not data on this? Aren't all of you who are just saying "it's logic" or "it stands to reason" curious as to why there is absolutely nothing anyone has presented so far that can back up what you say?
Google tells me concealed carry started in Georgia in 1976. And all of you expect me to believe that in 45 years we do not have any studies that show whether or not concealed carry is effective as a crime deterrent? I'm not even saying no such study exists. I'm saying that if it does exist, none of you even know and most of you don't care either.
Because, again, we are talking about a law here. Laws, and repeals of laws, should be based on evidence, not guesses, not 'it stands to reason,' not 'it's logical to think,' not 'we hope.' Evidence. And if California proposed a law requiring every gun owner to, for example, submit their weapon for regular safety inspection, I would sure hope you would demand some evidence to support such a law.
This is what bothers me so much about gun discussions overall, both people who are into guns and people who are against guns- so much resistance to evidence. So much reliance on what you think is reasonable or rational or logical.
If you want guns to be illegal, fine. Show me evidence and data from other countries to support your argument.
If you want concealed carry to be legal in California, fine. Show me evidence and data from other states that shows that it is effective and safe.
Why is this so unreasonable?
Lol. You LITERALLY refer to mass shooters in your question to me. It was the only thing you had brought up.
I said it in response to:
What did you mean if you weren't talking about mass shooters?
He's right... What he said doesn't automatically constitute a reference to mass shootings. When I read it, I didn't think of it in that regard.
That said, he's pulling the straw man out for you, or moving the goal posts, or whatever its called... He's not answering your questions and instead turning the argument against you by focusing on something you said wrong. He's arguing in bad faith.
After the beginning of his reply started off with saying he wasn't the one who brought up mass shootings, I didn't bother reading the rest of his post. I wasn't going to give a guy who can't believe his own words he wrote my time of reading the rest of his post. Before that post though, I don't think I moved a goal post anywhere. In fact, all I wanted was a simple response to the question I had asked about how it makes it safer at a park, which I believe no one answered.
Ok so you're both arguing in bad faith then, got it.
Before that post? No, you didn't, but I wasn't referring to that post, was I?
And you're right, no one answered it. Everyone in this thread needs to understand that the person they're talking to isn't going to do the work to change their own minds. You want to change someone's mind? Put in the work, show references. Show studies. Show articles. We can all argue on logic and suppositions until the cows come home, but when has that ever worked for you to change someone's mind on such a divisive subject?
I can Google a million articles about people getting shot with their own gun. Can you also do the same and show me something where the law abiding, gun carrying, citizen saved the day at a park? I bet you can. Prove it.
There will always be violence. Guns don't change that. The only thing they do is make the death toll go up faster. You want to reduce the number of deaths by gun? Reduce the number of guns. And I say that as a law abiding gun owner.
You articles are irrelevant because...pay attention now..... THIS LAW DOESNT GET RID OF A SINGLE GUN. Also, look at you as well, completely unable to provide an answer to my simple question, so you have to go off on a mini tirade of other junk to bury that fact away.
You're an idiot.
Edit to add: and the reason is because you are failing to see the correlation between what I wrote, why restricting guns is a good idea, and how it applies to the law in the OP. Like I said, you're arguing in bad faith and, at this point, INTENTIONALLY not engaging in the subject and are choosing to twist things around. I don't know why I expected you to be any different than any of the other gun nuts out there. Scream a little louder next time, it might change my mind.
Me scream a little louder? You're the one still commenting in an old post that you had already lost sway of opinion in and calling people idiots. Lol
You're correct on that point. But you still didn't answer his question. Don't argue in bad faith like all the others do. He's trying to have a constructive discussion with you. You want to change his mind? Then engage with him. Otherwise acting like you just did shows that you have no intention of engaging with the actual topic and are instead trying to put him on the defensive because you know you lost this argument.
The guy never answered the one question I asked about to begin with. Look up there. I wrote it out very plainly and specifically and got no response about how this law will make a park more safe. All of his responses you're speaking of about the open discussion has not been a discussion of the one question I very specifically asked for. He's just been trying to shift the discussion over to something else. Amusingly because he has no sound argument on it.