this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2023
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Israel is missing from the picture
Israel didn't start the war.
People like you always seem to wanna start the story at October 7th while ignoring any relevant history before it. In case you don't know, israel and the zionist project took over Palestinian land and as a result almost a million Palestinians fleed palestine. Amongst many others who were killed. What I find interesting is that zionists in their correspondance with the British at the time is that they weren't pressed about getting palestine to be their homeland, they were okay in finding somewhere else. One of the other possibilities was Uganda for example.
The Jewish people came from Egypt no? And occupied other people's land. And when they did take over Palestine it wasn't in its entirety. If you count the number of years they lived there and had control over the land vs the amount they didn't. Then you'd see the amount that they didn't is greater than the amount they were there.
No. They likely didn't come from egypt.
Where did they come from then?
Many, many people have been fighting over the land for thousands of years if you really want to go back. As far as I'm concerned, the land belongs to whoever can hold it.
Here's a question for you, is morally okay to kill innocent children and women? Honestly the fact that you would say that tells me all I need to know about what type of person you are.
If that was the qualification for losing the right to the land then the Palestinians would have lost it long ago
They have lost it... They all live in open air concentration camps...
Where did I say that's the qualification for who has the right for the land? Aren't jewish people who emigrated there anyways from Egypt? Ill ask again, is it morally okay to kill innocent civilians? Innocent children and women?
That's such a nonsense question even before the reality that both sides are killing innocent children, the most over used meme on the internet is the trolly problem but you're still trying to act like you've never heard of it. Yes, if inaction results in a worse outcome then action is permissible from a moral stand point.
Yeah, so mass rape and terrorism is OK in your book if the ends justify the means? Hamas did start the conflict.
Israel was in talks with Saudi Arabia to normalize relations and Iran didn't want that at all and they gave Hamas the green light to attack.
https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/09/saudi-israel-normalization-agreement-horizon
Everything that happens in that region is about Saudi Arabia and Iran.
No one said its okay. You're very good at strawmaning me. If Hamas did commit such acts then of course there should be proper justice. However, proper justice isn't blowing up innocent people and children. Just like you don't blow up a school when there's a school shooter.
Where we disagree is in saying Hamas didn't start this current conflict. They certainly did. Has shit been going on here for millenia? of course. The "strawman" was to remind you of the fact this opened with mass rape and murder at a music festival -- that's a fact.
You seemed to argue that thousand years of history seemingly justifies that and I'm telling you that it does not. " If Hamas did "... So you're absolute when it comes to Israel but when it comes to Hamas there' are modifiers. Your bias is showing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67613153
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/middleeast/rape-sexual-violence-hamas-israel-what-we-know-intl/index.html
Israel has done plenty of things that they should not be doing. The warlike bombardment of a city is not justified and has soured world opinion against them.
My "bias" is not an argument. Everyone has their biasias. The problem is that israel continues to lie on the narrative and just in this short span of time we've seen their lies come out. Take the "40 beheaded babies" for example. I'm open to an independent investigator.
Also it's very rich. You really like to dig on this issue of mass killing and rape and take issue with it but don't take issue with israel doing the same exact thing and worse back. That is a double standard hypocrisy.
Keep strawmaning me. I never said it justifies it.
Yes it did when it started the settler colonial project and ethnic cleansing campaign in 1948 and all the subsequent oppression.
Jews started out buying the land legally until Arab nationalists started murdering them, making a one state solution impossible, then declared war on Israel when they used the UN's two state borders.
Arabs who remained peaceful and stayed behind the 48 borders were not "ethnically cleansed," and today are 20% of the citizens of Israel. Perhaps that oppression is due to constant violent attacks and a refusal to lay down arms and has nothing to do with ethnicity.
Buying the land legally from other occupiers, the Brits. The native population was never asked if they wanted to receive an influx of refugees from Europe, refugees that other European countries and the US straight up refused to take in.
Besides that, many Palestinians were indeed ethnically cleansed, and this is not even a debated fact, former Israeli soldiers came clean about it in interviews, talking in great detail about all the war crimes they committed.
The 20% Arabs in Israel you are talking about, although Israeli citizens, still do not enjoy the same rights as the jewish population.
I know all of this, I've been to Israel, I have jewish ancestry and relatives there.
And let's not even talk about the Apartheid system on the over 7 million people living under a military dictatorship imposed by the IDF, which is straight up a crime against humanity.
LoL. This is just so stupid. The UN offered the Arabs the same deal. One side chose peace the other chose war.
In the 30s the Arabs were offered more than they were in 48 and didn't want peace then.
900,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arab Nations in the 40s. The Arab population in Israel has risen by tenfold since the inception of Israel. The population of Gaza has increased by a similar level.
You've fallen victim to Arab imperialist propaganda.
Hmmm yes let me take half your land then offer you a peace deal. Then claim you're the one who's causing the problems when you don't take that "peace" deal. Ridiculous.