this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2023
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[–] SCB -3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

We will not be supporting a call for a full cease fire as it would allow the democratically elected government currently in charge to continue to be in charge

Putting aside the fact that I don’t think Hamas would win an election today (if they’d allow one)

You really wrote this out and thought it made sense.

[–] OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

In the same way Zeleneskyy isn't going to hold elections at this time, I doubt Hamas would either, although I think the sentiment between the leader and their citizens are completely different between the two.

There can be nuance here, I don't LIKE that they were democratically elected and definitely took a greater grip than granted by that election, but this is the 57th time we've decided to assist in the deposition of a foreign power and government that, although I think are commitering terrible atrocities, only became so popular and so radicalized due to the mistreatment of their population by the Israeli government assisted by the financial and militaristic aid already given to them by the United States.

People elect dictators all the time for all kinds of reasons, this one just happens to be deeply entrenched in our geopolitical expansion and security game and the harm inflicted on the citizens of palestine is partially our government's fault and they and so many of us refuse to acknowledge that.

[–] SCB 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Hamas seized power because he PA was trying to form a secular state, as part of a two-state solution. Upon seizing power, they immediately canceled elections forever. Then, they stole aid money from their own people, blocked the UNRWA from distributing further aid (and did so again during this conflict) and forced them to teach genocide against Jews in schools. This is all in addition to torturing and murdering any Palestinian dissidents who oppose Hamas.

Shit, during this very conflict, Hamas literally shot people fleeing south, because maximizing civilian casualties is a stated goal of theirs.

There is nothing redeeming about Hamas.

[–] OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I dont disagree with the statement that there's nothing redeeming about them. I agree they are a bad organization that is ALSO causing harms to the citizens of Palestine.

All I'm asking you to agree to is that the people of Palestine would benefit from a cease fire, if only to reduce the total number of civilian deaths. They cause civilian death, and so does Israel, but as long as the conflict is hot and active, that death and suffering is at it's zenith.

[–] SCB 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

All I’m asking you to agree to is that the people of Palestine would benefit from a cease fire, if only to reduce the total number of civilian deaths. They cause civilian death, and so does Israel, but as long as the conflict is hot and active, that death and suffering is at it’s zenith.

A) this has nothing to do with Hamas

B) my opinion will not influence this situation at all

[–] masquenox -2 points 9 months ago

There is nothing redeeming about Hamas.

You mean... apart from the fact that they are at war with a genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist state?