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At least 10 freed hostages were sexually abused in Hamas captivity, doctor says
(www.timesofisrael.com)
this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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The only people who are suffering are the civilians who don’t give a shit about this holy-land-grab-war, and are dying because two insane factions are being sold weapons.
These two were sitting right next to each other this morning:
Life imitates art, sadly
More like JRRM captured a fundamental reality
JRRM? Is this a gif joke?
He's actually Jorge RR Martin didn't you know?
Yeeeeah totally intentional
Few people know the actual spelling is Jorge
Yeah that’s fair. Good art holds up a mirror in our faces.
I wish this were true - that most people don't care about this and just want peace - but I think evidence is continuing to show that the reality is a bit messier. Here's some recent polling data from Gaza and the West Bank (though it should be strongly noted that polling in these places is very hard)
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023.pdf
It does feel disturbing to me that such a small number of Palestinians looked at the October 7th massacres and felt that they were wrong. It's tempting to believe that most people abhor violence and support non-violent paths towards peace, but I don't think the evidence really shows that.
I don't know what polling looks like in Israel, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's equally depressing. I think the main takeaway is that no one is really interested in moving towards peace.
Sharing images of the polling for more context:
Thanks for that. Looking again, there's one interesting stat there that I missed the first time, that only 14% support a Hamas-led government after the war, while most support a coalition with the Palestinian Authority. The PA is largely useless, but what they are not is terrorists, so that's a small hopeful sign.
Interesting stats 👍
If the two countries had parity and equality, that polling would suggest that the Palestinian citizens are awful.
But I'm our reality where Palestine is an open air person where the majority of people are children because the life expectancy is so poor, that kinda changes things, doesn't it?
I'd personally say no. Perhaps this is a privileged mindset, but I don't think there are any circumstances that justify the intentional murder, torture, and rape of random civilians.
I can certainly understand how that mindset would evolve given the circumstances - living your whole life oppressed by a foreign government with no real opportunities could easily lead you to dehumanize anyone associated with that nation - but it doesn't excuse it. I'm sure plenty of Jews after the Holocaust wanted to murder every German they saw, and again, while I would understand that mindset, it wouldn't excuse the behavior.
And even on a pragmatic level, devolving down into our baser instincts just means that whoever has the most guns wins, and that certainly isn't the Palestinians. Whether it's just or not - and I'd generally say it's not - there exists no path of violent resistance that leads to an independent thriving Palestine, no matter or fair or unfair one might think that is.
Your conflating hating other people with actually murdering them. The poll shows hatred, not murder.
Well, over a thousand Israelis were murdered two months ago, and this poll is expressing support for that.
So it's, at best, support for murder.
And over 17000 Palestinians were murdered as a result. What's your point? And mind you the situation for Palestinians in Gaza is rather grim, if not clearly horrific, with their homes turned into rubles not having access to food, water, electricity, not functioning health care system, living in makeshift tents with no sanitary conditions. Can you put yourself in their shoes? How would you feel and what your opinion would be towards the reason of all this suffering.
Perhaps people in Gaza are truly desperate, and you can't really expect much common sense from desperate people who are pushed to a corner.
The only way to fight terrorism is to give those people hope, a better future, fair treatment. Slaughtering them and dehumanizing them is like trying to put out a fire with fuel.
And it is a bit naive to think that the goal of Israel is only to get rid of Hamas. By now it is pretty obvious that Israel cares very little about the human suffering of those people. The goal is to turn the whole of Gaza into an inhabitable desert.
If I put a gun to your head, you’ll “poll” however I want you to.
The pollster is an Palestinian group based in Ramallah.