this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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My gf wanted so bad for me to send my DNA to these clowns. I declined due to privacy reasons. She tried to convince me that they keep your info private. I told her that even if that was true, the government could still access it. She thinks I'm paranoid. And now her personal info is likely part of this leak.
Lucky for you, if enough of your relatives send in their DNA they don't need to get anything from you directly.
My mother had breast cancer. I couldn't get a test to see if it was the inheritable one because then I would have to disclose it as pre-existing for the rest of my life. (For the record my mom took the genetic test and it was negative).
This is just one example.
What if in future, your insurance price depended on an inheritable diseases DNA clearance. You could refuse but then it would be $$$$$. What if my life insurance refused to pay upon my death because I had knowledge of a gene that causes cancer when I took out the policy?
PS not American.
They’ll almost surely attempt this, but it will be much less clear cut on it. There’s federal law against discriminating on the basis of genetics, so they can’t explicitly charge more for it.
But you better believe it’ll be a component in a deep learning insurance adjustment model that charges you more and just tells you the model says so — I’d expect this to occur and a court case to happen.
That's a situation for a government program, not insurance. Insurance is for situations where it's unlikely that you'll need a payout.
Of course people today have to deal with the systems we have, but I'm talking about your hypothetical "future" scenario.
If you've ever had blood work done at the doctors office or had any tissue removed, your DNA is almost certainly on file somewhere. Human specimens are very valuable in research so whatever isn't needed for testing is sent off to various research facilities. There really aren't laws about tissue ownership so medical facilities can do whatever they like without your permission, though some still ask. Source: "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks"
This is only partially true. Due to things like Henrietta Lacks cells (HeLa cells for those working in cell culture), we actually have informed consent around this. They can’t just use your samples for not consented collection purposes (though in some cases, the further testing may fall under the original consent)
HHS rules note:
“If the tissues are identifiable, then subjects must provide consent for the secondary use and that consent must cover the elements of consent in 21 CFR 50.25.”
That really only applies to healthcare providers covered under FDA and HIPAA regs.
Obligatory not a lawyer etc.
Yeah my blood's already on file, that way after the fall of human civilisation people can clone me to find out what happened and I get to live.
I wonder how many people like this turn around and then use electronic payments in person for everything.
Different levels of privacy. Electronic payments only reveal what you buy and at least serves a utility. 23andme is just for vanity and could reveal your preexisting conditions or family tree to people who would use it against you.
Each transaction isn't that much. Beating the path toward a cashless economy is a different story.
Do you remember the pregnant teenager outed to her parents over big data advertising?
All I'm saying is that the two are not equivalent and people aren't hypocrites for doing eletronics payments, but refusing vanity dna tests.
You're paranoid and she's probably part of the leak.
The odds the government gives any kind of shit about your 23 and me data, much less could competently do anything with it, are vanishingly small. That's just pure paranoia.
Not really.. this info can and is being used in solving crimes. That and, if the US government ever turns into a dictatorship (hello trump!) then you won't have to worry of being put on a list, you are already on one.
I'm on several. Social security, the draft, etc.
Point is the search methodology required has so far been worth it to catch one person. That person was a serial rapist and murderer. Hardly compelling.
Lists you are on contain information that can be modified, updated. I lived at A? I move to B. You can't change your DNA and if that would be abused, that would be much,uch worse than social security info
Sadly you are mistaken here, the government is very interested in your DNA data. Check out this article about how they caught the golden state killer:
What is your concern with doing a DNA spit test? I'm honestly curious, because I haven't heard an actual answer yet. I don't see how it exposes any more information compared to what advertisers already have.
Is this a serious question? Advertisers don't know that you carry a gene that means you may prematurely die? They'd like to know though, so they can feed you life insurance scams when they know you're vulnerable, "last chance" style round the world cruises, last will and testament legal services and of course pharmaceuticals. They also want to target your loved ones while they know they're especially vulnerable after you've loss. They want to send your spouse widows dating apps and psychic hotlines, etc. Advertising is knowing your specific weaknesses/vulnerabilities and exposing you to your triggers in your most vulnerable moments,for profit.
Also, this data is correct, and it's Data that can/will be used to deny people health coverage/insurance/jobs in the future. Also a potential tool to reveal layers of ethnic heritage they would make the nazis drool (look into how IBM did a version of this for the nazis to use the census to help enable the historic scale of that genocide). With trump potentially around the corner and other rising fascist powers worldwide, and the only way trump stays out of jail is to remain president indefinitely and "silence" his detractors, it's just too much sensitive data to be amassed, especially by a poorly regulated private company. Also makes your DNA vulnerable to cups gaining access eventually and bringing you in as suspect for crimes you didn't commit and, especially in places like Texas, executing you.
Better question is, why are you on the side of this topic that you're on?
Have any of your blood relatives had any diseases that have a genetic component? Cancer? Heart disease? Yeah, we don't cover that, it's as clear as day, in the fine print, on page 13,131 of indexed addendum information. Additionally, you knowingly had this information from a DNA test, which constitutes fraud, making your policy null and void. Thank you for your business.
Also, they could deny you coverage because of a preexisting condition, but come up with a different reason officially if that's illegal. If they can get your dna through a back channel, they have plausible deniability for their motive.
That's a good point that I hadn't considered. I'm not sure how that would go over legally in the US. They could gather very similar information by looking at records from relatives who have used the same insurance company, even just financial records, but that is monitored closely by the government. I wonder if we'll be seeing any lawsuits in the near future.
For me the reason is the same than with all collection of personal data on social media. There is no any one specific scenario I'm worried about per se, but it has more to do with the potential for misuse in the future. I hate to compare things to nazies but it's the best example I can come up with. Just imagine what a goldmine facebook user data would've been to them. There's always the possibility for a fascistic government of some kind to take power one day and a database containing these amounts of personal information of near every person alive has near infinite possibilities to be misused. I couldn't possibly imagines all the ways this information could be used against me but it can and thus the safest way is to prevent them from having the data in the first place. It's sort of an insurance. You hope that it will not be needed and it probably wont but going completely without is pretty irresponsible too.
I guess it would generate a bigger pool of people if they want to get super technical about who they want to genocide. US citizens already have to hand over their demographics to the government, but worst case... I could entertain that idea.
Advertisers have my preferences and buying and watching habits, my DNA is.. my DNA. That's another whole level
But why? Why is your DNA more you than literally every thing you've ever looked at or expressed an interest in?
Cataloging individual DNA data casually at a massive scale opens the door for massive genetic discrimination of all kinds, from discriminatory health insurance premiums and hiring discrimination to aparthied, eugenics, and genocide. "Don't be silly that'll never happen here." Is the height of affluent arrogance.
Humans have proven themselves to be fully capable of these horrors, it is just a matter of time until it happens again, and when we create tools of consolidated power-- just like IBM created machines that enabled Nazi concentration camps--we only increase the chance of enabling some deranged element of society oto repeat these catastrophic horrors.
All that downside just so we can consume 15 minutes of dopamine.
I'm surprised how based everyone here is being. So many people are just "give over all your information bro, the corporations will get it anyway."
Insurance companies would love your DNA too, for all the “good” reasons. And imagine not getting a job because of your DNA.
Zipcodes can do just so much…
I can easily imagine hiring managers tossing out job applications of people who have a family history of autism, but that's more a problem of it being too hard to fire them if they're a problem.
Religious people could also use a history of mental illiness to assume satanic activity.
What happens the worst that can happen when you give your DNA to a privite company? Delta Airlines will frame you for murder.
uh, would have pegged United for that.