this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
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"Officials said that Israel and Egypt were prepared to let foreigners leave the Strip which is under heavy Israeli bombardment, but Hamas had refused."

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[–] Aceticon 61 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (61 children)

As a retired Major-General explained on TV over here the other day, Hamas is a Insurrection Movement, which are made of 3 parts, the Political Side, the Military Side and Popular Support.

Want to destroy Hamas, destroy its popular support side.

The current indiscriminate bombing of Palestinians will never destroy it because not only does it increase the Popular Support for any Insurrection Movement against Israel, it also adds to the number of people who would join the military wing of such a movement (i.e. directly put their lives at risk), especially because for all the parroting of Israel's "human shields" propaganda, what the people there see is Israel choosing to bomb and kill their family, so even those who detest Hamas will detest Israel much much more and with good reason.

Unless Israel is willing to commit a Nazi-sized Genocide (which I suspect its current leadership would do if they thought they could get away with, hence their talk of a "second Nakba"), the solution will never be more violence.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Israel really going for a "If there's no witnesses, there's no problem" approach and killing everybody.

[–] Aceticon 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

They're targetting and killing journalists (and were already doing so before this) and their families.

States murder journalists and their families has no other reason than to stop the truth from coming out, so taking out a couple of tens of thousand who they see as untermenschen to "tie up loose ends" is hardly going to weigh on their consciences.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

They’re targetting and killing journalists (and were already doing so before this) and their families.

Well, they ran out of MSF doctors to shoot.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

To stop people from going to extreme lenghts, you need to give them something to lose.

Those people lost everything, of course they will fight by any means necessary

[–] Maggoty 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

We've learned that bombing only makes people more resolved to fight in every war in the 20th and 21st centuries. There's no reason it would change now. You can't bomb away ideas.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] wishthane 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The idea that the atomic bombs directly caused the surrender of Japan is contested, actually. It's more likely that they created an urgency in what was already looking like a losing battle. The difference in that situation is that Japan wasn't fighting a war of resistance at any cost against the US, they were fighting as part of an alliance on one front of a world war. In that case it is very real that troops lose morale, civilian casualties become too great, and loss of military assets make victory look unlikely, and then surrender looks attractive by comparison. But I think in the case of popularly supported resistance to colonizers, that threshold is quite high - people feel quite strongly about revenge and are convinced of the justice of their cause in that situation, so the brutality of their colonizers isn't likely to do anything other than strengthen their resolve.

Frankly, I actually think the atomic bombing and firebombing campaigns would be considered war crimes if they happened today. It's really weird that people justify it so much by how horrible the Japanese state was at the time - tons of innocent civilians, including lots of children, died horribly, and it was 100% anticipated, and in the case of the atomic bombing, they did it twice, knowing that. You can't justify your own actions by the crimes of your enemy.

[–] TokenBoomer 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Underrated comment that everyone should read and understand.

[–] Sparlock 11 points 8 months ago

The Pro-Israel crowd will say it is all lies and Israel is really making good friends with all Palestinians then act all shocked that rockets keep flying from gaza at them. Bombing the shit out of Palestinians has worked SO well over the last many decades. Yet they figure 'we just didn't bomb hard enough' to make them like us!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

That popular support will never disappear, Hamas is using Muslim vs infidels agenda. You see, that works well to brainwash Muslims worldwide. At no point would they stop cursing Israel and Jew.

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