this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 180 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This is how companies lay people off without having to report layoffs

[–] givesomefucks 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And if they resign, no severance.

Pretty sure Tesla is getting sued right now because they tried to call layoffs resignations with this same scheme

[–] newthrowaway20 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can an employee just refuse to go back and continue to work? I'd much rather be fired by them than give them a pass by resigning.

[–] reversebananimals 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, but they don't have to pay you unemployment, because they can say you're not following employment requirements.

[–] Khanzarate 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

they can't change your job in order to get you to quit, though. You don't have to agree to new requirements, and can get unemployment because they fire you for not doing so.

In this case, this might still qualify as constructive dismissal. Even if it for sure would, not everyone will apply for unemployment, and they can still challenge it, causing delays and getting more people to not pursue it, ultimately resulting in a layoff that's cheaper than it's ought to be.

[–] reversebananimals 5 points 1 year ago

Yeah - I'm not a lawyer, but my casual understanding is you can get out of that gotcha if you apply the rule equally to everyone at the company. No legal action against these RTO mandates has been successful so far.

That being said, I didn't fully read the article. Roblox is offering severance to those who don't want to RTO - that's less shitty than a lot of the other tech companies.

[–] AbidanYre 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That seems like it would only apply to people hired after March 2020. Anyone before then would have been in office anyway.

[–] SheeEttin 11 points 1 year ago

Maybe. If both parties agreed to the change to become remote full time, then they'd both have to agree to change back. Though having a previous non-remote work agreement changed by an international state of emergency does give some weight to the employer side.

But I'm not a lawyer.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If people were hired (say, in 2020) under the condition that they’re allowed to work from home, this might be considered constructive dismissal - that is, forcing an employee to quit in a way that is equivalent to firing them. The employees are then entitled to the normal rules for unemployment, and potentially severance pay, unused vacation cashout, and so on.

I think Musk is facing several lawsuits along those lines, but might be moving to settle because the cost of arbitration would potentially bankrupt the company.

[–] phoneymouse 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Employees should sue since this is functionally a layoff.

[–] SheeEttin 5 points 1 year ago

That's what unemployment is for. If they fight the claim, then yeah, lawyer.

[–] eskimofry 11 points 1 year ago

They are actually not able to follow up. They are saying resign.. not get canned. They actually cannot afford severance. Best way to fight back is not comply, not resign.

[–] Vodik_VDK 4 points 1 year ago

Constructive or insightful comments, such as this, are the kind of content Lemmy should strive for.