1077
Biden worries ‘extreme’ supreme court can’t be relied on to uphold rule of law
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
1077 points (96.7% liked)
News
23437 readers
3914 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
To me, as a non-American, the most baffling thing is that everyone in the States just assumes, and accepts, that these appointed justices are going to rule according to some political bias.
That's not the way it works in the rest of the free world. Judges are, by definition, trusted to be impartial interpreters of the law/constitution. That's their role.
I live in Canada, and I'm vaguely familiar with some of the names of our Supreme Court justices, but I certainly don't know their political leanings, nor do I care. Nor does any Canadian I know. That's the way it's supposed to be.
So as far as I can see, the problem isn't that SCOTUS is stacked with Republicans, nor that it can be. The problem is that everyone seems to assume that this is the way it should be.
No, we don't. Along with Citizens United, EVERY American with a brain and open eyes is aware these are the absolute most important problems, and they lead to endgame checkmate authoritarianism.
And yet I never see any mention of this anywhere. Even here, it seems that Biden is more concerned about whether the court can administer justice because it is so much out of balance. No mention, though, that the "balance" shouldn't even be a factor.
SCOTUS justices are appointed for life because it's supposed to put them above political considerations. No politician can influence them by threatening removal. Yet, there you are, SCOTUS is just as political as the other two branches.
I don't know what i hate more, being subjected to increasingly authoritarian christofascist rule in my country or having some punk looking down his nose at me and saying it's my own fault.
Pssssh.
Tell you what. When it happens to you, why don't you tell me what you hate more.
(Fuggen punks think theyre fighting ready just cuz they've never been tested, geez almighty.)
Oh shit.. love the ratm and/or the boss reference! Very different music, very similar representation :)
It's RATM and steinbeck, since the reference lead me to read the book and afterwards led me to many more truths. Thanks man! I am happy when people get the ref.
You fuck w Tortilla Flat? My favorite by far.
Oh my God tortilla flat is fucking brilliant. I thought it trite in the first couple chapters but i stuck it out and was proven a fool. By the end i loved every one of those guys and now i need to read it again
You from upstate NY? Around 40 yrs old? Did you give me this book in college? Bc you sound like a certain guy I know... Lol
What do you think RATM would think about these "don't criticize me for doing nothing" posts?
Tom and zach would both be embarrassed for you.
Firstly for your cowardly sock-puppetry, secondly for not knowing that those lyrics reference an important steinbeck character.
But cone. You have one more, right? One more name you use to pump upboats in your silly existence? Hurry and bring that one out to be clever as well
The irony of you calling someone cowardly. You didn't name your account "Tom Joad", you named it in reference to the song, which is explicitly a social protest song from people willing to actually do something rather than complain about being shamed. This isn't quite Paul Ryan loving Rage while being the actual machine, but what a monumental lack of introspection.
"Where there's a fight 'gainst the blood and hatred in the air, look for me, mom, I'll be there."
Clearly Tom and Zach would echo this sentiment. Authoritarianism or someone looking down their nose at your inaction, who's to say which is worse?
How long did it take you to write this? I won't be satisfied until i know you've wasted as much time thinking i might be worth your time as i did with you
LOL. Coming back and replying a second time as the person who already read and responded to a grandchild comment tangentially about them really screams "I'm not bothered".
You're actually right. Especially now that I've got 5 beers in me and can't tell if you're some new cunt whiteknighting for the punk i schooled, or if youre the same dumb cunt i taught a lesson to before.
I've already wasted so much time giving a fuck about losers and low intellect arguments tonight. Frankly, i have to cede this win.
You win.
You win, you fucking monkeys.
See ya tomorrow, you goddamn beautiful pieces of shit
It's a new day baby
I got a few words in and got really bored. Dou you have any last words?
Yeah.. shocking.. victim blaming coming from tough guys
Victim blaming and undeserved arrogance come from the same type of folks, huh? The best (only good) part of interacting with these losers is the fact we're on a public forum. At least then there are others to witness the interaction and see how dumb they look. I can only hope
Fuck you
;)
Oh, you were agreeing with the punk? Geez i am surprised. I wonder if it matters to you that you wasted my time just now?
Probably not, huh? It's kinda you're thing, huh? Being clever?
Americans largely haven't had much of a choice. In states where the laws are decent and political corruption isn't heavily entrenched, things are alright and the system isn't totally broken. But in places where it has? There's less and less ability to vote in more reasonable laws.
The problems are systemic. The same states have shitty education systems, mass voter disenfranchisement of prisoners and anyone else they can justify taking the vote from, extensive gerrymandering, and every other form of corruption and political inefficiency. The major population centers take a very different approach, but they have to compete with these backward and broken states through an electoral system that skews the results in their favor.
Trying to take direct action outside of the official political framework is also problematic. In Europe you've got the benefit of an extremely high population density and a relatively small area regardless of which country you're in. In the US everything is extremely spread out. The result is that protest is often not terribly effective. You might be able to shut down a couple of streets, but there's no way you're disturbing commerce for more than a single metropolitan area (of which there are many) at a time. It's the same reason mass public transit runs into issues: we're way too spread out for strategies that require high and comparatively uniform population density.
That doesn't mean there's no answer, but it does mean we're going to have to get a little more creative.
People take for granted what made Occupy special. We all rally around the fact that folks that normally wouldn't recognize they're all the 99% came together. But the real win was that it was everywhere all at once all the time.
Right, but compare the effort to the results. People were bussing in from all over the country, but like what actually changed?
Same thing with the BLM protests. The largest protest movement in American history and... nothing changed. COVID kills a million plus Americans and all that changed is OSHA was banned from enforcing worker safety measures. No extra disease tracking, no countrywide efforts to improve air quality. We're stuck in a quagmire where leaders just wait out problems rather than needing to address them.
No we definitely don't enjoy this, it's the same reason we all love to say "eat the rich" and "it's guillotine time" and then do absofuckinglutley nothing about it. No one wants to be the one to start something absolutely crazy, we all deep down believe that we can somehow fix this within the system as opposed to throwing Molotovs. :/
It sounds like that belief is worth having a look at again.
Sounds like you don't have any real-life experience with the American political system.
Yeah, we shouldn't have been walking outside wearing that..
Largest protests in history (at least at the time) were against invading Iraq in the lead-up to the war. Democrats protest, but Republicans VOTE. That's why they run everything from a minority position.
No, they gerrymander. They lose on popular vote all the time.
So we're going to protest our way around gerrymandering now?
It's gerrymandered because people voted in 6he reps who gerrymandered everything. Things didn't get gerrymandered by the GOP protesting for more gerrymandering.
First of all, the Overton Window in America is skewed heavily right. So our centrist Democratic leaders are center right, our Republicans are what most countries would call regressive, extremist, authoritarian right wing, or even fascists.
See, the problem is rightwing extremism has been on a campaign since the civil rights era to take control of the country and undo the progress made since the 1960s.
They installed right wing media. They cut education and tampered with curricula. They gerrymandered. They instituted voter suppression. Their strategy culminated in the Federalist Society influencing the selection of Gorsuch and installation of right wing judges during the Trump administration.
The thing you have to know if you ever want to try and stop extremist, authoritarian, right wing regressives is that they do not hold the same ideals and morals as you and I. They do not play from the same playbook or follow the same rulebook.
They believe that "might makes right," that any ends justify the means, that rules are enacted to protect them and their in group and punish their selected out group. They believe in many cases that their cause is justified by God.
And so any justice who adheres to such zealous principles will see no issue with finding a way to rule in the favor of their side. They may even go so far as to rule with weak or minimal justification. They will be a lot less likely to rule in an unbiased fashion.
My current opinion is that, so far, we have only seen rulings that fall into the "finding a way" category.
I think these justices will incrementally push the envelope on what they can get away with over the upcoming decades.
“I think these justices will incrementally push the envelope on what they can get away with over the upcoming decades.”
I feel like we have already turned the corner of openly ruling along party lines as well as unrepentant corruption.
I think it will get worse and worse until.... well I don't know what will turn it around or when.
Agreed. I forgot to end my post with “but I fear that it can get so much worse before anything is done.”
I mean, as crappy as the court has been and all the confidence they’ve lost, they have essentially just cemented the role of Supreme Court justice as a politician instead of some honored impartial high quality person who stays above it all.
So they have blatantly pushed the Republican agenda, including things like Roe. But they could do so much more damage still.
I doubt the Republican justices stay alive for much longer with the growing realization that political assassinations easily solve issues with the supreme court. It's talked in hush tones a lot online because people act as if talking about the thing means you're inviting it.
Tbh I'm genuinely surprised suicidal people on the left haven't already taken one out. I was betting on it to happen shortly after Biden took presidency. It's going to happen eventually if they keep ruling like shit. Revolutions are started by such political stunts.
Although I used to think all the crazy school shooters were eventually going to be lefties as well. Turns out they at least try to get medicated and fix themselves. Righties just go out murdering for apeshit reasons lol. Still, I know way more people on the left in serious depression and wanting to commit suicide. With the amount of fame MSM gives suicidal murderers... like before, I'm surprised it hasn't already happened.
This patently false, compared to the world as a whole the US is quite liberal. Only in certain aspects, compared to certain European countries is the US "right-wing". US for instance has way more liberal freedom of speech and religion than most countries. How many European countries have a state religion?
The problem is that these judges are appointed through a political process, as about any government worker apparently is. This way you get a hyper politicized country, where even the job of librarian is no longer just a job, but an oppointment that should be strictly controlled.
It's absolutely baffling.
Your parliament just gave a nazi a standing ovation.
Yes. The supreme court is a political tool just like every other branch of government.
They are not impartial. They all have agendas.
I think Canada may not have this issue because there aren't as many different cultures in Canada competing for dominance.
Even though your ruling class wants to extend its reach as much as possible, they acknowledge they're still ruling over Canadians.
In the US, it's "city people ruling over country" or "whites ruling over blacks" or "christians ruling over everything." This means it's acceptable and even encouraged for one group to abuse another.
This creates an "us vs. them" mentality because it really is us vs. them.