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OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books, including J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter series
(www.businessinsider.com)
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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If you sample someone else's music and turn around and try to sell it, without first asking permission from the original artist, that's copyright infringement.
So, if the same rules apply, as your post suggests, OpenAI is also infringing on copyright.
I think you completely and thoroughly do not understand what I'm saying or why I'm saying it. No where did I suggest that I do not understand modern copyright. I'm saying I'm questioning my belief in this extreme interpretation of copyright which is represented by exactly what you just parroted. That this interpretation is both functionally and materially unworkable, but also antithetical to a reasonable understanding of how ideas and communication work.
Because in practical terms, writers and artists' livelihoods are being threatened by AIs who were trained on their work without their consent or compensation. Ultimately the only valid justification for copyright is to enable the career of professional creators who contribute to our culture. We knew how ideas and communication worked when copyright was first created. That is why it's a limited time protection, a compromise.
All the philosophical arguments about the nature of ideas and learning, and how much a machine may be like a person don't change that if anyone dedicates years of their efforts to develop their skills only to be undercut by an AI who was trained on their own works, is an incredibly shitty position to be in.
That's actually not what copyright is for. Copyright was made to enhance the public culture by promoting the creation of art.
If these record label types impede public culture then they are antithetical to copyright
I take that same argument and extend it to the impediment of any idea.
The thing is that, for the AI to be trained on Harry Potter, someone must have bought the book.
I wouldn't be opposed to use an AI and tell it "here. Read this book that I bought. Summarize it for me." That would be fair game.
But if I ask an AI "did you read Harry Potter? What can you tell me about Voldemort?" That means the AI consumed the book.
Granted, someone on the internet could publish an essay about Voldemort and bake it available to everyone, so, hmmm..... you may have a point. May.
Sure. That follows. I guess the point I'm considering is more broad. If you've sold some one a copy of a book, you've given up ownership of the information in the book. If you truly don't want that information out there, don't sell the book. Its an extreme take, but I don't believe that ideas can be property in the same way as a shoe (or rather, I believe maybe they are in-fact the same kind of property as a shoe. You can't own the principal of a shoe, simply the shoe its self.)
So should Dread Zeplin be hauled off to jail because they created derivative works without permission? I mean maybe they should, but not for copyright imo. How about the fan Star Wars movies getting their balls sued off by Disney?
Guess what? The actual copyright owners of the world; those who own tens of thousands or millions of copyrighted works, will be the precise individuals paying for and developing that kind of automation, and in the current legal interpretation of copyright, its their property to do so with. This outrage masturbation the internet is engaged in ignores the current reality of copyright, that its not small makers and artists benefiting from it but billion dollar multinational corporations benefiting from it.
This is a philosophical argument and an important one: Should we legally constrain the flow and use of ideas because an individuals right to extract profit from an idea.
I don't think so.
Dread Zeppelin could have been sued. They were just lucky to be liked by Robert Plant.
As for the Star Wars fan movie, the copyright claim about the music was dropped because it was frivolous. The video creator made a deal with Lucasfilm to use Star Wars copyrighted material, he didn’t just go yolo.
You are conditioning the rights of artists making derivative works to the rights of systems being used to take advantage of those artists without consent or compensation. Not only those are two different situations but also supporting the latter doesn't mean supporting the former.
Like I said somewhere in this discussion, AI are not people. People have rights that tools do not. If you want to argue in favor of parody and fan artists, do that. If you want to speak out again how the current state of copyright makes it so corporations rather than the actual artists gets the rights and profit over the works they create, do that. Leaping in defense of AI is not it.
I'm challenging the legal precedent of the barrier of creating derivative works in any media, including AI.
Well, I believe AI and human creative rights ought to be treated separately. If nothing else because you can find plenty of derivative work creators which are perfectly fine with supporting each other and collaborating, but do not want their works to be fed into AI so that it can imitate and undercut them. This shouldn't even be difficult in a logical or philosophical sense because we already treat animals as separate from humans as far as intellectual property rights go.
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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AI is not a person. If you replace it with a person in an analogy, that's a whole different discussion.
We actually do restrict how tools can engage with artworks all the time. You know, "don't take pictures".
That's life under capitalism.
I agree with you in essence (I've put a lot of time into a free software game).
However, people are entitled to the fruits of their labor, and until we learn to leave capitalism behind artists have to protect their work to survive. To eat. To feed their kids. And pay their rent.
Unless OpenAi is planning to pay out royalties to everyone they stole from, what their doing is illegal and immoral under our current, capitalist paradigm.
Yeah, this is definitely leaning a little too "People shouldn't pump their own gas because gas attendants need to eat, feed their kids, pay rent" for me.
A sample is a fundamental part of a song’s output, not just its input. If LLMs are changing the input’s work to a high enough degree is it not protected as a transformative work?
it's more like a collage of everyone's words. it doesn't make anything creative because ot doesn't have a body or life or real social inputs you could say. basically it's just rearranging other people's words.
A song that's nothing but samples. but so many samples it hides that fact. this is my view anyway.
and only a handful of people are getting rich of the outputs.
if we were in some kinda post capitalism economy or if we had UBI it wouldn't bother me really. it's not the artists ego I'm sticking up for, but their livelihood