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Trump says Putin launching massive strike on Ukraine is ‘what anybody would do’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2025
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You mean terms like „I‘ll stop hurting you if you give me more land and don‘t ask for help from the west.“?
Give me a break!
Nope, Ukraine would have kept all of its land had they accepted Putin's offer in 2022. Even the status of Crimea was to be negotiable after 10-15 years.
Putin's peace treaty would have the US and the UK, as guarantors, who were obliged to assist Ukraine in case of aggression against it.
Try again.
Right, but Crimea is Ukraine's land which Russia invaded and stole in 2014. So that's not letting Ukraine have all its land is it? It's letting Ukraine keep bits of land you haven't stolen yet. Can you see how that might not seem very reasonable?
Take it back then. Oh wait Ukraine tried and is failing to that. Instead they have lost a larger portion of their country. Ever heard of the sunk cost fallacy? Ukraine should take the loss and make peace before more people sadly die from this horrible war.
Ukraine was at peace in 2014 before Russia invaded. The only reason there is not peace is because of Putin.
No they weren't. Before the annexation of Crimea, Ukraine underwent a violent coup against the democratically elected government where Ukrainian ultranationalists burned down an entire building filled with dozens of unarmed protestors who were against this illegitimate coup conducted by said ultranationalists.
Yanukovych was a Putin puppet that turned armed forces against unarmed civilians. The armed forces themselves turned on Yanukovych. That tells you how bad he was for Ukraine. If you're looking for Yanukovych now, you'll find him in Russia. I wonder why...
What happened was that pro-maidan snipers shot their own protestors and then blame it on the government in a false flag operation.
Oh and have a fun time trying to prove that several hundred witness testimonies, 2,000 videos, and 6,000 photos, and 30 gigabytes of radio intercepts are Russian propaganda.
And what would Ukraine have to give Putin in return? The thing is Putin started the war! Putin started the war because Ukraine was daring to enter NATO which you could literally only hate if you actually wanted to fuck with some country!
Putins offer can be boiled down to „If you don‘t tattle to the teacher, i will stop punching you. Perhaps i could give you back your iPod when you graduate high school if you ask me nicely then.“
What the fuck is that kind of a bullshit deal? This could only be beaten if another bully agrees with the first bully to take your phone and leave the iPod and both of them will not beat them into the hospital. Oh wait…
Putin's reasons for starting the invasion was multifold. Ukraine was to cease NATO membership plans; downsize its military forces; forbid foreign countries from hosting military bases; and pay reparations. In return, Ukraine would be allowed to keep all of its territory, Crimea would be negotiable after 10-15 years, they would be allowed to join the EU, AND Russia would allow several NATO members to guarantee Ukraine's soveriengty. This means that Ukraine would get the main benefit of joining NATO (protection) without the ability to act as a base for NATO soldiers and weapons that can be used for offensive purposes against Russia.
NATO looked like the next coming of the Axis powers to Russia and can you blame them? It practically surrounded them. Perhaps you would be more understanding if you would think about what if Mexico, Cuba, and Canada was part of the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War? You can say that this is Russian propaganda and you can be right but you forget that Russia and its people unironically believe in their own propaganda that NATO is out to get them.
TLDR: Russia would have allowed Ukraine to invoke Article 5 if invaded but not base NATO weapons and soldiers during peacetime that can be used for offensive purposes.
That's none of Putin's fucking business. Ukraine is a sovereign country that can make its own decisions about its future. If your bullshit reasoning is reasonable, if Putin takes Ukraine fully are you justifying Putin invading Poland and Romania for being in NATO with foreign miltary bases too?
It doesn't have to make sense, it's the firehose of bullshit.
It stopped being a sovereign nation after the illegitimate coup which occured in 2014.
Yanukovych was a Putin laptop that was thrown out by the citizenry as well as the Ukrainian military. You'll find Yanukovych in Russia now, but I probably don't have to tell you that. You're probably closer to him than I am.
He was thrown out due to a false flag operation where pro-maidan snipers shot their own protestors in order to incite public backlash against Yanukovych.
This has been confirmed by several hundred witness testimonies including wounded protestors, 2,000 videos, and 6,000 photos, 30 gigabytes of radio intercepts, and forensic examinations.
Yeah, I would be getting the fuck out of dodge and be escaping to Russia too if far right snipers shot their own fellow protestors and managed to convince the populace including your own armed forces that it was you who done it.
And went running to Russia as soon as the people started resisting.
Yes?
And as for the rest: Putin has a long and sordid history of ignoring treaties with former parts of the USSR. He dangles the carrot and then hits with the stick if any of the soviet states actually try to eat it.
Russia wants Ukraine to become another Belarus or Georgia. Ukraine does not want that. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and does not want to invade Russia or take its land. Neither does NATO.
After that, your argument completely falls apart. It’s no more than the excuse, but has no grounding in reality.
Maybe Ukraine should not act like Georgia. I.E, conducing massacres against civilians during a civil war.
Ukraine has not been sovereign since 2014 imo. The democratically elected government got overthrown by a violent coup leading to massive amounts of unrest in Eastern Ukraine leading to this new illegitimate government conducting massacres like the Victory Day Massacre where they fired into an entire crowd.
You don’t get out much, do you?
The only place that narrative is still accepted is inside Russia.
Oh, and it’s not a civil war when one of the combatants is significantly made up of foreigners from Russia.
Next thing you know, you’ll be saying that Ukraine is really just a disputed Russian territory because they rejected their democratically elected Russian selected leader.
Even Ukraine admitted that the vast majority of Separatists were Ukrainians. The Victory Day Massacre occured before Girkin's intervention. Protestors showed their passports to Vice News showing that they were in fact Ukrainian. Do you want me to PM you the video of the AFU and Azov firing into a crowd of unarmed protestors? People also like to quote Girkin to prove that Russia started the War in the Donbas forgetting the rest of the quote. He acknowledged the movement started before he intervened. What he did say is that it would have been crushed without his support naming the Victory Day Massacre as evidence for this where the AFU put down unrest by simply shooting everyone in the crowd. Russia did provide support to them. Yes. They provided intellgence and leadership with Girkin becoming the leader of the DPR. Russia provided weapons. But the movement was ultimately organic. Russian forces did not storm Ukraine in any significant number until 2015 when they thrown BTGs into Ukraine to stem the tide when DPR and LPR forces were being pushed back.
I’m curious: what’s your opinion on China’s continually improving relationship with Kazakhstan, and their plans to sever ties with Russia and become a full fledged partner in the belt and road?
China and Kazakhstan are sovereign countries who can do whatever they want.
And there it is.
Are you denying the fact that Kazakhstan and China are sovereign countries unlike Ukraine?
In other words, he would have allowed them to draw NATO into a conflict, but not to do anything to deter actual aggression or make it possible for NATO to fight effectively if called upon to do so. And any such conditions would violate Ukraine's sovereignty. Free countries can ally themselves with whoever they want to.
So you are part of the To the last Ukrainian camp. You know Russia is not going to withdraw from Ukraine unless Ukraine surrenders. You know Ukraine has no chance to win. But instead of demanding Ukraine to make peace, you want the war to continue including all of the horrible suffering it has caused.
Reparations for being invaded....