this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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3DPrinting

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My son is about ready for his first printer. His school is running Cetus MK3 printers, he has a class using them, and his teacher has recommended this printer. He also has an educational seat of Fusion 360.

I'm proficient with Mastercam and hand written/modified G-code. I can help him with CAD no problem. Alignment, assembly, adjustment, and backlash are second nature for me. Have a little better than layman's understanding of printers. (Lusted over the Markforged printer that could do continuous carbon fiber.)

Eventually, will be building my own shop and hope my son might work with me. Hope to include printing, especially in metal.

I've seen some of the flap about Bambu and them closing up the software tool chain. I would like to avoid that sort of thing, for now, openness is better.

Top of my budget is around $500, with $200 probably being better.

Usable prints for tooling/spacers/repairs would be a bonus as would being able to print UV resistant plastic.

My goal for him is to get gud at modelling and get a feel for computer controlled movement. Another goal, harder to describe, is him finding the joy in mechanical tinkering and producing an idea made physical.

Thank you much! What do?

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[–] j4k3 15 points 6 days ago (3 children)

::: spoiler If you get a cheap project printer, the kid is likely to spend a lot of time obsessing over printers and mods instead of projects.

Personally, I do not regret buying a Prusa MK3 even though it was more than I initially wanted to spend. I do not tinker with it, and I own it for life with no proprietary products or software required. I don't really care about upgrading it further. I have another little project printer I tinkered with a bunch, a Kingroon KP3S I got to test out klipper and decide if I wanted to build a Voron. I decided against because I can do enough with the MK3. I only have a little trouble with large ABS prints that have wall thickness variation constraints above the first couple of centimeters, and I can design around this with modularity.

If you have not tried or checked out FreeCAD, maybe do so. There are some challenges, but especially after the recent move to version 1.0, it is really nice to use. Fusion is just a long term subscription baiting scheme like bambu. I was around for Autodesk acquiring Eagle for EDA design, and vowed to never trust them with a bait scam again.

With my Prusa MK3, the software and printer just works. Joe has made concerning posts about anti open source sentiments and has started selling a new proprietary printer. So do your due diligence. If real ownership matters to you.

  • The entire 3d printing hobby was started by Adrian Bowyer and the RepRap project. This community is where Joseph Prusa started and got involved with supplying kits, parts, and where the MK* nomenclature comes from.
  • RepRap, Marlin, and Klipper are the main software used in most printers. Prusa uses a version of Marlin that is so modified it is not easy to reproduce using the configuration menu built into Marlin. This is the mechanism that was used to limit others from copying and undercutting Prusa which does continuous product production with full time employees and developers. This is very different than contract manufactured goods that only ever had a subcontracted developer work on a checklist of features and got paid on the contract. There will never be further development on contract manufactured goods produced by venture capital. Those products are incentivised to convince the stereotypical buyer to make a purchase and the product experience or even real ownership is irrelevant as is the reputation of the company itself. The only thing that matters is presentation to the majority of perspective buyers. This is why such companies focus on hardware specs instead of usefulness, community, and the while value stack.
  • If you really watch people that review printers that also actually design and print real stuff, you will likely see one of three patterns:

1.) they have several cheap printers and only one or two ever work.
2.) They are renting a bambu and likely shilling it.
3.) They passively mention using their Prusa or you see it in the background occasionally.

Seriously, I was not interested in Prusa's at first, but I followed people long enough before pulling the trigger that this pattern became obvious to me. It is far more expensive to have several printer projects for just one or two that work. With hardware garbage like mobile devices, all of your buying options are proprietary junk you cannot own. There is not a single device sold with a fully documented SOC/processor and modem chip, so your only choice is to rent a device and be manipulated. With 3d printing, the entire hobby is built on open source and therefore full end user autonomy and ownership. You have a choice of neo feudalism in a world where you do not have self deterministic autonomy by supporting proprietary products, but it is the exception to the standards of this community. The real open source community is generally located around Voron and similar projects with LDO selling supporting kits in much the same way that Prusa did originally with RepRap.

In the 21st century, it is smartest to look into the software you want to run and make purchases based on the hardware that these projects support best. If you use git to clone a repo on GitLab or elsewhere, you can use a package called gource to create a graphical representation of the project commits over time. This makes it easy to see where people are actively developing the software. You will likely also notice who the key developers are and what hardware they likely own based on where they make tweaks over time. Buying similar hardware will make for the best experience in my opinion.

Note: These are my opinions and only my personal opinions. I am not a mod in this capacity. I do my best to separate my opinion and bias from any mod actions. All are welcome to their own opinions, disagreement, and ethics, so long as they follow the Hippocratic aphorism 'first do no harm.'

[–] Machinist 3 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I check on FreeCAD every so often. The UI team should be forced to wear underwear made from pinecones until they fix that horror. Been doing CAD/CAM for more than two decades and FreeCAD is so unintuitive that it is unusable. Making a sketch or taking a measurement shouldn't require research. Recently tried it again and was unable to sketch angles for a brace I was making and needed dims on. Tried libreCAD (unfortunately 2d only) and was able to get my angles and lengths in 15min or so without any tutorials.

I hear and agree with what you're saying about open CAD software. However, I don't want my son trying to learn something that will just frustrate him. I wish OSS would catch up on CAD/CAM, I could ditch windows for good.

I watched the RepRap development back in the day, but eventually stopped following 3D printing closely. (Ended up with an Atlas Craftsman lathe with milling attachment that did all the home manufacturing I needed). Prussa and Voron are our top contenders for printers now. He's got a spreadsheet where he's comparing specs and I'm getting him to read the quick starts and manuals.

I'm going to dig into the Voron world and see if it's a reasonable project for me to support my son on. Not sure if it will be beyond his attention span. Otherwise it will be either a Prussa or maybe an Ender.

[–] j4k3 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I learned on FreeCAD and find it super intuitive now. There were frustrations at first, but I learned proper design with a thorough understanding of the TNI in all CAD as a result. Whatever a person starts on becomes a dependency especially with proprietary where user dependency is part of the design.

I have trouble with Blender because of the hotkey memorization required, but I can put down FreeCAD for months and return with no decay in skills. You're welcome to disagree. That is just my experience.

[–] Machinist 2 points 5 days ago

I started with Surfcam then MasterCAM, done some TEBIS, Fusion 360, AutoCAD, Eagle, Solidworks, and probably some others. I've even used inkscape and GIMP to cleanup and convert images into models for measurements and reverse engineering.

I have never had the trouble I have with FreeCAD. Have seen others complain about it as well.