submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Hey all! Mod team of r/unixporn here. After a couple weeks of work on our end, we finally have a Lemmy community at LemmyWorld that we're committing to moderating in the long run. Additionally, due to Lemmy's federation, you should be able to crosspost between here and there even if you don't have an account on LemmyWorld. Hope to see you there!

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[-] [email protected] 43 points 11 months ago

There's no good reason. There never is, other than the reddit mods wanting control and not wanting to share with those who already built community on Lemmy.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Acting like there's only one true community and anyone else would have malicious intent. Jesus Christ man.

[-] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

That's... not really what I said?

I think having multiple communities about the same subject on different instances can be interesting and potentially good!

I just think in this case there wasn't really a need to make a new community, when the main difference is a mod team from a different website. The tone of the post struck me as telling the community what to do. I was a little assumptive, I suppose.

I used to mod a subreddit/discord that has already had a couple lemmy communities pop up, so this is something I've been talking about with friends for a bit. I'm personally hoping to see moderators of reddit communities making space for new people to run things.

[-] ElKowar 1 points 11 months ago

We're happy to see any community around ricing, desktop customization, linux and art pop up, no matter where or how! However, "unixporn" is not the name of a category of community, it's the name and "brand" (if you wanna call it that) of one specific community, managed by a specific set of people. Practically, I assume we couldn't really prevent you from starting your own thing and also calling it "unixporn", as we haven't actually registered any trademark (and I don't think we'd wanna do that, either). However, things such as the logo do have copyrights attached to them, and the current team has explicit permission to use that branding which unrelated communities wouldn't.

We're not "telling the community what to do", we're telling the people where we plan to continue the community in an official manner.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'd honestly have preferred to see a discussion with the community about which instance to make official rather than a unilateral decision by Reddit mods.

This is frankly my beef with all of this:

  • "we haven’t actually registered any trademark (and I don’t think we’d wanna do that, either)"
  • "things such as the logo do have copyrights attached to them, and the current team has explicit permission to use that branding which unrelated communities wouldn’t"

You guys think you own the "brand" and not the community members. Good on you for putting in the effort to cultivate it on Reddit over the years and putting in the thankless work to moderate it, however, without the community your "brand" means nothing.

If we're truly open source enthusiasts maybe it's time to embrace some open source ideals around the community. Perhaps yearly mod elections which help rotate interested folk through the responsibilities. Some sign that you all are embracing the spirit of the community and not trying to own it.

Of course, if you care more about ownership, I'm happy to subscribe to both (all, if more pop up?) communities of the name "unixporn", although as a slight protest I will not to post to your "official" community since it will appear to not support the actual essence of what we are doing here.

[-] ElKowar 5 points 11 months ago

I appreciate your feedback, genuinely. Please don't read the following as me saying you're "wrong" -- I think this is a matter of perspective.

I fully agree: without the community, "unixporn" means nothing. But there is a community. There are people that appreciate the rules and moderation-style we have been providing over the last few years. We're definitely not perfect, far from it. But we do try to do our best to use our experiences, connections and understanding of the broader ricing community to create a place where creativity can flourish, interesting projects can happen, and people can have meaningful exchanges.

A "brand" in this context, for me, links to the atmosphere and main goals of the community, it is related to the style of moderation that is happening in there. Our "brand" is representative of the trust the current community has in our moderation decisions. We, as a team, "own" that trust by the community, and thus have an obligation to do what we think is right for the community.

No project, not even an open-source one, works without maintainers. You have to have some entity overlooking changes, steering the project. Some entity with a vision. When people sufficiently disagree with the vision or style of management by that maintainer-team, that's when a fork happens. If you dislike the way the community works right now, dislike the way moderation is done, then that's when a new community should start. Clearly, some people do appreciate the current unixporn, so if a new community came up with a sufficiently different style, we'd potentially not even have much overlap in userbase. I'm all for a wider range of people getting into the hobby.

Open-source is not anarchy, it's open collaboration.

We could have most likely handled opening a lemmy community a bit better, I agree. However, I find petty protests to be a questionable response to that, and would rather you continue providing your actual opinions in a format like you just did, helping us do what the community wants and helping to keep us as a community together.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

That's fair, and well said. If you want to continue to shepherd the community with trust though, start taking actions that continue to build that trust. Don't repeat the history we literally just walked away from.

Please include the community in discussions, such as changing the lemmy instance, and laying out your reasoning. Give us a chance to add our two cents. For the love of all that you hold dear don't do it in a gated community like Discord, make it public and accessible.

[-] ElKowar 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Very fair point, thanks for your feedback! We'll definitely try to be more transparent in the future. In this case, I think what happened is that none of the mods saw the existing lemmy.ml instance as something that actually was large enough to matter or that was ever official, so from our view this was less "moving to another instance" than it was "we'll start out on lemmy.world, those of you that already gathered on lemmy.ml on their own, here's your FYI that we won't be going there".

I can definitely see how it came across differently, and how we might have underestimated the connection people already felt to the lemmy.ml instance. Sorry for that!

(Also a quick note: It'd have been more or less impossible to have this poll on reddit because mentioning lemmy would be likely to give reddit enough reason to yeet the existing team -- thus discord is/was the only other official channel of communication. However, even there, we didn't really make this much of a public discourse, thus this is more of a sidenote than an actual defense)

[-] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Your last sentence is just saying the exact same thing with different words.

For the record, you wouldn't be able to trademark "unixporn" because "Unix" is a trademark of The Open Group. And a wholly unoriginal name.

[-] ElKowar 0 points 11 months ago

Not quite: The people are free to not follow us, if they have some reason to not trust the team anymore. It's just that where ever they go instead wouldn't have the same team behind it.

[-] buffet 5 points 11 months ago

I think you are misunderstanding; we already moderate this community (check the sidebar).

We decided to move instances, as we don't fully agree with the administration here, and the instance often seems to be down.

We are currently re-evaluating this decision, although the general public seems to be fine with it.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago

It's really not a misunderstanding if you fail to communicate that at all! Every bit of what you said made it sound like you all swooped in from reddit (given none of the mods I've seen have any interactoin with any other lemmy communities) to take over people who were already posting content.

Maybe that's not what's happening, which is great! People are obviously confused, so you're not doing a good job of explaining yourselves or what's happening in any event.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

general public seems to be fine with it

Are you serious? Man are you reading the comments?

this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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