this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2024
427 points (94.8% liked)

politics

19101 readers
4169 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Xanis 59 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I feel as if not enough people are saying this.

Infighting is a bane. Back when I was on Reddit I got fucking downvoted into oblivion multiple times for pointing out that the Left's biggest problem, both now and historically, is how we can never agree on anything. That whatever faults the Right has, they will come together just to shit on someone else. If us on the Left stood up in unity we would be a literal human tsunami flooding the bullshit that is the Republican habitual diatribe. Second, and louder, is apathy, as you said.

Starting to wonder if throwing League of Legends level of insults at people might get them angry enough to vote just to show me what's what.

[–] Cosmonauticus 34 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's because the Democratic party is a coalition. The Democratic party ISN'T LEFT. It's a party made up of moderates (right wingers) and liberals.

It's essentially two different political philosophies trying to operate within one party.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Which is why ranked choice voting allows people to better represent their candidate preferences. All the variety of political opinion can’t be represented in two parties.

[–] aodhsishaj 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

First past the post got us in this mess and it sure as shit ain't gonna get us out of it. I'll take a straw poll over what our current system is.

Ranked Choice voting allows for the kind of direct democratic action as we just saw in France and what they finally got around to doing in the UK with the most recent elections.

However, it's against the best interest of the current politicians in power.

How do we get Ranked Choice on ballot when the DNC won't even use it in their primaries?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The French are also FPTP, they just convinced most of the potential spoiler candidates to fall on their swords for the good of the nation.

[–] andxz 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The politics here in the EU are just as messy, there's simply a thin veneer of ..something, class, perhaps, that trump managed to completely remove from American politics.

What happened in the UK is a genuine bright spot, though. I couldn't stand Sunak, but at least he behaved like a fucking adult when the time came.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

It very much does feel like Trump gave the right permission to be their worst selves in public. The Republicans of the 90s and 00s were perfectly happy to use racism and jingoism and white grievance to win votes, but they either used dog whistles or pretended they were speaking an "uncomfortable truth". Now that it's been accepted that being horrible in public can make you president, they don't need to play that game anymore and they love it.

And all it took was that one little break. The European right is probably one successful brash racist away from being just as bad. There have been some close calls already.

[–] Xanis 4 points 4 months ago

You get it by coming together. The smart politicians, and the hungry ones, will back the measures if there is enough open and consistent popular support. Remember that it is about power. Political power starts and ends with numbers. Make it more valuable to some to support a change and they will become an ally.

However, this is done only through us coming together in unity, or under one or two strong leaders.

[–] lennybird 6 points 4 months ago

The other problem with Democrats is they have terrible fucking strategy. Then they get this bright fucking idea to take a page out of Biden's handbook. In what conceivable world was it a good idea to run an 81-year-old who all but promised to be a bridge candidate to a younger generation?

Yeah, guys, let's "rally" blindly around the guy for whom 75% of the fucking electorate find is not cognitively fit to run for a 2nd term. Real genius strategy. It's like they completely forget about low-info undecided swing voters.

It's like they ALWAYS employ the wrong strategy 2 cycles too fucking late.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Isn't it kind of the nature of the left to bicker with itself though? At some level, conservatism seeks to preserve an existing system, or at the extreme end, bring back a system recently removed. There's some room for infighting between the most and least extreme there, but for the most part, it's a goal that is easy to unite for. But the left, at it's most basic level, seeks to change things. And changing things is not a goal that inspires unity quite so well, because to change things, one needs an idea of what things should be changed to, and what you think things should be may not be what someone else thinks things should be, even if you both want change. If it so happens that what someone else wants to achieve is in your view even worse than the status quo, then you can't afford to unite with that person, because there is the risk that your efforts will further a goal you find even less tolerable than what you get by doing nothing, even though what you both want is change.

[–] Xanis 5 points 4 months ago

This isn't aimed specifically at you. I'm very likely guilty of this myself.

What you've said here highlights what I feel is the fundamental issue of unity for those on the left: We are all so damned certain we're the smartest in the room, to some extent anyway. We can box up and ship our opinions largely through the use of actual vocabulary. We can do real research. Many more of us have degrees, or are otherwise interested in some more academic form of hobbies, careers, and lend our strengths towards artistic approaches. Now this isn't universal and there are gigantic nodes of people who stand outside this generalization and yet still consider themselves not Republican, if not clearly left-leaning. There is at least a grain of truth for the majority.

It isn't that we bicker. We are so divided that each of the groups we belong to must, in their own way, be correct, or be offended. Just look at Biden: The majority on the Left call for equality and justice for individuals with barriers/disabilities. We yap on and on about their strengths and capacity to be incredible in so many ways. Then the instant Biden verbally fucks up we wholly ignore all the immense good he has done in favor of "Old man can't word properly!" and immediately draw lines.

What the fuck.

Yeah, that's a radical example and somewhat incorrectly used in the context of this discussion, and yet it does highlight why we get so fucked over so often. I've backed up and seen the whole forest for what it is and would really appreciate it if everyone else stopped attempting to cram their oversized heads into the nearest tree, all the while yelling about how their tree is somehow both wholly different and also the best tree. We're all in a fucking forest and Hexxus is torching the place. The problem is even those of us choosing the forest FOR the trees are at risk of being burned. All because the intelligent fools can't hear us yelling while their heads are shoved up an Ent's ass, blind in their false wisdom.

Gah, so angry.