this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
313 points (97.0% liked)

World News

38979 readers
4382 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Protesters in Barcelona have sprayed visitors with water as part of a demonstration against mass tourism.

Demonstrators marching through areas popular with tourists on Saturday chanted “tourists go home” and squirted them with water pistols, while others carried signs with slogans including “Barcelona is not for sale.”

Thousands of protesters took to the streets of the city in the latest demonstration against mass tourism in Spain, which has seen similar actions in the Canary Islands and Mallorca recently, decrying the impact on living costs and quality of life for local people.

The demonstration was organised by a group of more than 100 local organizations, led by the Assemblea de Barris pel Decreixement Turístic (Neighborhood Assembly for Tourism Degrowth).

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] robocall 83 points 4 months ago (4 children)

It seems more effective to get short term rentals banned in their city by organizing and speaking to their local city council.

Squirting unsuspecting visitors with water guns seems ineffective and unlikely to achieve any results.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It got them enough attention to make it to the CNN...

[–] robocall 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You make a point, but I still question if a CNN article will achieve the desired results. People ought to discuss with their local representatives to achieve things.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Their local representative probably doesn’t give a shit, but now that it’s making international news and making them look bad they might act.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Now that I know about this in Colorado, surely it will get better

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago

The town hall intends to ban short term rentals in a few years. Definitely far too slow, but it has gotten to the point that even politicians who want to see their city's coffers grow fat admit that it's an economic activity that does more harm than good.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yup.

Like many cities around the world, AirBNB (and similar) redirecting housing into short term rentals has had a massive negative impact on long term housing for local residents.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Well, that and the constant crackdown governments do on new construction. AirBNB takes housing out of the supply and over-strict zoning prevents new housing from coming in.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You mean the zoning laws, that demand houses to be built for people living in them instead of tourist short term rentals? Yeah bad bad zoning laws.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

There many things wrong with many zoning laws. Of course it's dependent municipality, but in many places light residential is given preference, neighbourhoods are designed for driving. Wide roads designed to have higher speed limits so aren't all that walkable. Zoning is done separately for residential, commercial, and industrial. So there's no shops close by to walk to, so gotta use a car.

It all adds up to neighbourhoods that aren't all that livable. But older parts of a cities that were built before all this zoning are walkable, there's a good mix of housing and shops. Those places are were people want to live. But also where tourists want to stay.

Bad zoning laws indeed.

[–] Freefall 2 points 4 months ago

ABnB is the worst. Once it moved away from "renting a room in an occupied house" to "become a landlord with less steps and no oversight!" it became a blight.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I love it. If they protest peacefully like this, it's innefective. If they are violent, or destructive it's innefective. Do you really think if talking with politicians worked we would be in this situation? They are trying to get more attention to the problem and this worked perfectly.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I'm noticing this tactic a lot of people shitting on activism by handwringing about "Oh I'm totally one of you and I totally agree with your goals but your tactics are just going too far!"

MLK decried this exact thing in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail:

“…that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ ”

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Attacking tourists is not exactly a solution and will just fuck their economy up even more.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

It's totally harmless and works to grab the media attention.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Attacking tourists

It's water

[–] hark 3 points 4 months ago

What if they have an allergy to water?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

In a hostile context even the most harmless of things can become weapons.

For example, do you care if the guy in school gets a bucket of water emptied above them while being ridiculed by bullies?

It's just water at the end, so what?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This analogy is a ridiculous false equivalence.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just because you don't understand his point doesn't make it a false equivalence.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yes a kid being bullied by their peers in a school with a bucket of water is the same as adult tourists in a foreign city being squirt as a protest against rampant overtourism. Why didn't I see the overt similarities. It's definitely more than just the use of water

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

See, I said you didn't understand his point, and you've just proven it. He never directly compared those two acts, but in your stupidity, you can't seem to see something that obvious.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The point is idiotic and ignores all context between the two acts. It literally does compare the two acts or it's irrelevant to bring up. That's what an analogy does.

Except for dumb as shit Internet debater assholes who base their usernames on mid tier novelists, I guess.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Your point is idiotic, that's why it's easily countered by an analogy that is not relevant to the story. Maybe you should've countered him with a better point, instead of relying on overused talking points such as false equivalence to avoid thinking more logically. His point was only to show how stupid the point you brought up was, not to serve as an analogy to the real act.

Not only are you unable to think logically, you even had to rely on mocking my username to try and win this argument. Why so desperate that you had to use such a classic Internet debater move? The projection is really just the icing on the cake.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

No, you see:

  1. I was drunk when I replied because I do have a social life
  2. Mocking you wasn't part of my argument. I made that in the first paragraph (about context and similarly). I just mocked you because I didn't like you. As you know, Professor Logician, an insult being included in an argument doesn't necessarily make the argument an ad hominem.

The original user didn't reply to my disagreement like a maladjusted prick, unlike you. So they got a civil disagreement back.

Unlike them, I do hope you get "attacked" by a 5 year old with a water gun this summer. 🤓

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How so?

It illustrates the hostility experienced by the target. It's just water, which is by itself harmless.

But:

In the one case it is a demeaning gesture by bullies, which does imply so much more than "just water".

In the other case it is experiencing aggression, possibly being shouted at or insulted, which also causes more than "just water".

How would you feel?

You plan a trip to the city, with your partner and kids. And then you come accross angry people who tell you to fuck off while shooting at you and your family with water pistols.

Would you feel the same way about this as if it was just raining?

To me, and probably a lot of people, this is certainly another and far more hostile experience, which is also not a pleasant one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Because your analogy is ignoring both the volume of water involved and the context that surrounds both actions, one being actual bullying.

There is a world of difference in the psychological impact of a bullied child being soaked with a bucket of water by their peers and strangers being squirt with water guns by locals as a form of protest.

In the former, I would be dealing with peers and the feelings of social exclusion that come from bullying and unacceptance. People in my peer group would likely have been there pointing and laughing. There would be fear of having to run into my bullies on a daily basis who would be specifically targeting me as a single individual for no other reason but aggression or to assert dominance or whatever reasons a bully would have. The bullying period would likely have no definite end in sight.

In the later, I would at worst feel a bit of embarrassment and maybe some annoyance. Maybe I'd worry about running into the protestors again. But then my trip would end and I would be home. The protesters also are unlikely to be following me and my family around as specific people to harass and will instead be protesting generally.

And yeah this just comes off as Internet debate stuff to me. I said "it's water" instead of specifically "it was a water gun squirt". "hmm, having you ever considered tidal waves though. Water can be violent". Wow. Thanks.

And again, my response was to demean the overdramatic use of the word "attacked".

If someone jumped out of a bush and squirt you with a water gun a few times then ran away, would you call emergency services and tell them you were "attacked" by someone? If so, you really think that would be a good use of your local police force's time and wouldn't be exaggerating the situation?

It's incredibly soft to describe being shot at with a water gun as "attacked". Sorry. I hope a 5 year old doesn't "attack" any of y'all this summer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I see what you mean. However, it was at no point my intention to equate the severity of those two different contexts. But given your interpretation, I understand why you found it to be a ridiculous comparison. I just wanted to highlight that even seemingly harmless things can become a tool for harming someone regardless of the actual severity. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough before.

Given that this protest is performed by adults and not 5 year olds, and assuming that they are not shy about their hostility towards tourists, I would argue that the severity of such an confrontation can linger for a while with someone. I am absolutely sure that this would keep my mind busy for a while if it were to happen to me or those close to me. Therefore, I would rank this higher in terms of severity than a child being silly. (Of course it would be no match with being bullied.)

my response was to demean the overdramatic use of the word “attacked”.

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't interpret the wording in such a dramatic manner like you did. I've seen it in a more general, abstract manner. Not in a way that would motivate me to call the police, no. Almost like the phrasing "verbal attack", which is also understood rather lightly. It seems this is why we've got into this misunderstanding. So thank you for clarifying this. :)