only 54? sad
this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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United States | News & Politics
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These types of polls always make me realize how doomed the Republican party is. Their guy engaged in an insurrection to stay in power after losing the election. Rather than going "yeah, you can't do that" and picking someone else as their nominee for the next election, they're barreling forward with the same old traitorous loser. All the while, ignoring the constitution and claiming that it's the Democrats who are against democracy.
I know the expectation is for the U.S. Supreme Court to reverse this ruling.
However, I think there are plenty of Republicans that recognize things have gone wrong for them and would like to see Trump eliminated, particularly if they can complain that it was a terrible thing that they would never support.
Let's be clear. Anyone who's not spoken out about him in the Republican party is a coward.
But, I think you are right. I think quite a few aren't taking the risk of speaking out against him because they think the courts and process will do it for them. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
In some ways it's probably a smart move, but it shows the absolute lack of moral character and backbone of modern Republicans.
A coward or an evil piece of shit that agrees with fascism.
I hate to say it (no I don't, I hate that it's true), but it's often both with MAGAts.
It does seem to be more a question of motivation (when it comes to voting)
They'll vote for him if he runs though won't they?
The Supremes will likely overturn it, but this is the best possible opportunity for the GOP to right the ship. I think if just one justice will cross and vote with the other side, Roberts goes with them. His legacy can go from Citizens United and overturning Roe to stopping the second insurrection from happening and saving democracy.
There's also a slightly higher chance that they leave the whole thing alone and say it's up to the states to decide. If enough states, especially swing states, bar Trump from running over the next several months, the GOP may need to call an audible at the convention.
This is true but at the same time, it isn't like the Republicans are getting better candidates to replace him. I mean, the bar is so low from what Trump set, the Republicans will just find cretins that can simply step over that bar.
Tim Cotton as senator, Mike Johnson as speaker and DeSantis aiming for presidency. It's like, these people aren't any better, they just aren't as destructive as Trump was which isn't saying alot.
I agree. There's no path forward that isn't terrifying. If Trump can't run because of this decision, then whatever Trump wanna be gets the nomination gets the "not the devil we know" bonus.
I'd argue they could be more destructive than Trump because they won't be screwing up their chances to destroy the democracy for stupid reasons.
Yeah, we'd just be back to seeing how scary Republicans can get when they even remotely have some intelligence but still as crazy. It'd be like the Bush years again or Reagan years or more.
I find it interesting that there is almost no one in the somewhat disapprove camp. More people strongly approve than somewhat approve, but clearly there is some ambivalence and nuance out there among those who approve of the decision. But if you disapprove, it's all or nothing. Sounds about right.
i keep saying it and i keep being rebuked without evidence but the numbers suggest there's no such thing as swing or 'independent' voters. Hasn't been a thing since at least 2016, probably beyond with Obama. No one is 50/50 on Trump. Swing, centrist, independent voters don't actually exist.
Anymore.
I disagree. While Trump is polarizing, there are plenty of swing voters who would absolutely consider voting for a decent candidate from either party.
I am one such person. I voted for Republicans until Trump, then voted third party, then voted for Biden in 2020. I have voted for Rs, Ds, and third parties in almost every election in the last 15 years or so. I am unlikely to vote for Biden in this coming election, but I'm absolutely not voting for Trump. If a reasonable Republican gets the nomination, I may end up voting Republican.
I don't think I'm all that unique here. There are plenty in the middle that just need decent candidates to go after their votes.
I wonder how many of them actually read the decision, and how many are just depending on what's filtered through journalistic agendas?
The complete decision is over 200 pages of lawyer talk. I'm going to bet approximately 0, including you.
Actually reading the opinion is a pretty high bar. It seems unnecessary as well. I'd rather know who can summarized various key arguments made by the sides.
It'd be cool if some polls started with a quiz on some relevant uncontroversial facts, asked questions, then reported results based broken up by competence on the quiz.
I don't care how many Democrats believe it's right; I want to know how informed people think.
I read it. It's not lawyer talk.
Edit: And I have the chat log here where I was talking with a friend about the high points while I read it. Started Tuesday 12/19 5:45p CT, ended just before 900p the same evening.
Let's say it's 200 pages even. You took a little less than a minute per page to read, think about, and type about topics with your friend?
Methinks dishonesty afoot.
I'm not the person above, but actually go look at the pages. It's double spaced, wide margins, and sometimes up to half a page taken up by citations. Not that it's exactly going to be a speedy read, but it'll be way faster than like 200 pages might seem. The supreme court margins if you've ever looked at those rulings get especially ridiculous, each page is like a quarter of a page. Tiny bit of text floating in the middle of a mostly empty page. Not sure why they format them that way. Anyways, they're long, but not as long as the page totals imply. A minute per page isn't unreasonable.
There’s a lot of citations throughout that can be skipped over.
Compelling rebuttal. So, you're saying you skimmed it?
edit: was meant in jest, my apologies.
Not what I'm saying at all. There are certainly parts that I read more lightly than others, because they had to do with what the district court did and said (as well as other background and history I'm already familiar with), and I'd already read that. The three dissenting opinions are at the end; the majority opinion addressed every single misplaced concern in those, so those weren't terribly demanding (or well written), either.
When I had the thought of my original comment here, it's because I'd read it, and I was only confident to make such a comment because I'd read it.
There's not a ton I can say to "prove" anything to anyone here, but I am the person who made a place for posting such documents, which should indicate my interest. This ruling is one of the most important court rulings in American history. I saw the articles talking about it, went to documentcloud to find it, posted it, settled in to read it.
It's certainly not breezy bathroom reading material.
Can anyone tell me how I can delete the two accidental posts I made above?
if you are on the web, you should see three little dots below your post. You can click those, and it will give you a dropdown menu with a delete option.
Thank you! The mod must have deleted it for me, but thank you for responding and helping.
Woohoo! Yeah I want Lemmy to succeed, so I think it's good to support the community in little ways where possible.
It's certainly not breezy bathroom reading material.
It's certainly not breezy bathroom reading material.
How can anything in this country have 24 percent of one side support and only end up at 54 percent of the total? Should be closer to 70 if that's true. I guess somehow miraculously we never get more than 55 percent support for anything, but this stat sounds as inaccurate as me making up: 51 percent of Americans are pro choice including 20 percent of Republicans
Assume there are 200 people in a room; half are Democrats and half are Republicans. Assume 24% of the Republicans approve of this result. Assume 85% of the Democrats approve of this result.
(85 + 24) / 200 people = ~54%
There is a bit of a bias from the fact that there are more registered Democrats than Republicans (about 46% of population vs. 23% for Republicans), so given a random sampling of the population, the numbers work. I don't have the numbers, but I remember hearing that Democrats were also more likely to take part in these polls overall.
Something something literacy and critical thinking do wonders.
"24% of Republicans". Not "24% of the population". Republicans are a subset of the whole.
If the population were half Democrats and half Republicans that would be 24% of the half that is Republican.
Makes sense to me.
And what is that decision?
Trump will not appear on the ballot in Colorado unless the Supreme Court takes the case and overturns it. As it stands, the Supreme Court has not taken the case, but it is incredibly likely they will take the case. It is also likely they will overturn it, but it is not unclear how since it's actually well-reasoned and grounded in the law as it is written. Won't stop them though.
(I'm parroting the Chris Hayes show from last night.)
The court is collectively taking their talents to South Beach.
What they mean is 24% within that 54%. So, 54% total support it and 24% of them happen to be Republican.
This is incorrect. The study shows that 24% of republicans who answered are in support of the decision.