this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2023
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I’ve been using Lemmy and learning the ropes of the Fediverse and I’m really impressed - especially using wefwef which has replicated my Apollo experience very well.

There are posts and everything, just a lack of comments to read for hours on end is the only issue I have, but I believe that with more users this really could be the replacement.

Are you guys thinking the same thing? Is there evidence yet that Reddit is slowly failing and power users are migrating?

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I'm going to copy my post from elsewhere here:

Not only did we let them monopolize niche knowledge we also let them completely supplant forums and other methods for discussion on the web while letting them slowly poison the quality of discussion overall through the wide spread use of bot manipulation. Imagine an internet with reasonable, easy to access, informative and kind discussion. That is where we will trend without highly corporatized outrage driven content algorithms and it's not just a completely different internet, but a completely different world.

[–] Eclipciz 11 points 2 years ago

Yea the internet definitely has taken that trend to the extreme in recent years, especially with businesses which don’t make their own websites anymore and host their social media on platforms like Facebook; of course along with individual communities slowly being herded into the corporate mega forum that is Reddit. Definitely not healthy to have all our human interaction/information controlled by these entities especially as we move into the age of artificial intelligence.

[–] smokedtofu 2 points 2 years ago
[–] arditty 25 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Lemmy reminds me a lot of the way the internet used to be- smaller, independent communities with more real engagement and less of a content firehose. With so many instances, if you want something, you have to seek it out or start it yourself- with the added benefit of federation keeping everyone connected.

I’m really optimistic that this will get critical mass. I think the concept of federation is great, and I like to think we’re at the forefront of a whole new phase of online community.

[–] yads 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Plus everything is just a bit broken and requires some figuring out. I'm definitely pretty tech savvy, but I'm having a hard time imagining non tech savvy people figuring out how to sign up and access these communities, at least not in the current state of things.

[–] whitewalker_646 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The hardest thing about lemmy was signing up and figuring out how to access it and log my account into mlem but things are mostly smooth after that sure there are some bugs but i feel like i am learning quickly

The only big disadvantage i see in lemmy other than the sign up process is the lack of a dedicated video player but it’s understandable because they cost too much to maintain and run

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[–] arditty 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Agreed. But Reddit, along with most of the internet, was like that in the early days too. In the days pre-Digg migration, I feel like Reddit was down more than up. After the migration though, there was enough critical mass to encourage bug fixing and improvement.

I’m sure there will be growing pains though no matter the outcome.

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[–] normalmighty 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's giving me strong ~2013 reddit vibes, which I always thought was around the peak of the site to be honest.

I think the community system starts to break down once the platform gets too big. As reddit grew, all of the big r/all subs lost any sort of identity and became the same amorphous community copy/pasted over and over.

The downside is that we don't have as much niche content yet, but we'll see how it's looking in a year or so.

[–] arditty 2 points 2 years ago

It’s the classic “Eternal September”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

[–] Dark3stWhite 24 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I think lemmy has a lot of potential, we are just lacking the flood of content that Reddit has. But as this the API changes just went into effect, I feel like new users are still learning the ropes of lemmy and it will be some time until we have that endless stream of content. So it is important for us all to be as active as possible to help reach that goal faster

[–] Eclipciz 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don’t think it’s the content — there’s already Reddit reposting bots available. It’s the lack of comments which makes Lemmy feel more lonely/less active. I wonder what the average non-bot comment count is for most posts on r/all

[–] yads 3 points 2 years ago

I kind of like the lower comment count. It sucks when there are literally no comments, but for me, I'm much more inclined to leave a comment when there aren't too many already. Plus I found most comments were really low effort jokes. For every well thought out comment, there were a million 'this' type comments.

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[–] Badbones 18 points 2 years ago

I was skeptical of lemmy at first but it's definitely growing on me. As apps and features mature I'm sure it's going to be even better.

Was a chronic lurker on Reddit but hoping to contribute to communities here to help it grow!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I don't know if I'm ready to believe, but I hope decentralization is the next shape of the internet, as it was before.

For years I've watched smaller businesses give up on having websites in favor of just a Facebook page, or businesses built entirely on YouTube, Instagram or Facebook, with the very real risk of having the rug arbitrarily pulled out from under then for some dumb reason. It's totally unsustainable to rely on the whims of these platforms to house your canonical home or as a base for your income stream.

Sure it's nice to reach a wide audience by publishing to platforms with many users, but companies still need to be in control of their identity, so if some platform goes south, it's not a catastrophe.

[–] EchidnaMode 5 points 2 years ago

I hope so too. It’s frustrating when I look up a local business while I’m out, find only their Facebook page, and then it asks me to log in just to read it. I can’t/won’t do that. I’ve not been on Facebook for years, I’m not faffing about with that rubbish.

That’s losing money for these small businesses, because I can’t even check their opening hours or if there’s food I can eat. Meanwhile Big Chain Restaurant has everything on their own site. The small companies could be doing so much more, but they need to give up using Facebook as their sole website publishing service.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I don't know about power users or whatever, but social media as we know it is literally imploding. It's kind of stunning, and I think it's the perfect opportunity for federation to take off.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

Oh it's imploding alright, just like that billionaire submarine

Too soon?

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[–] notun 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No, this is going to be its own niche. And that's fine.

[–] Albinoss 12 points 2 years ago

The great thing about Reddit is that a lot of people are there.

The worst thing about Reddit is that a lot of people are there.

I don’t think the fediverse is ever going to be massive, but that’s okay! Smaller communities usually lead to better interactions. I’ve only been here a day, but the thing that jumps out at me is this place doesn’t seem hostile.

Early days on social services have always been my favorite. In a weird way, I’m glad Reddit led me here.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Eventually the fediverse will grow. Maybe now or in 5-10 years when the rest of the internet users get fed up with the ads and subscription fees etc. on commercial sites. It seems like an inevitable evolution.

I don't think reddit will necessarily fail big time, but it has changed into something that I don't want or need to participate in, so it doesn't really matter to me. I actually don't want them to fail, because the users there who enjoy it for what it is now should be able to use it for ..that.

In the last couple of years it grew too big for my taste anyway. The "Eternal September" phenomena hit it pretty badly. I didn't enjoy the constant noise and immature arguing over semantics. It's a different demographic than Facebook, but it's about the same reason I don't use that either.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago

People like free sites, but I can see popular instances dying without some form of way to make money. I don't think all Lemmy communities can run on donations alone.

[–] Jourei 12 points 2 years ago

I am cautiously hopeful that fedi will become significant in a while.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

No clue about the power users, but I left reddit due to the API changes. I never posted and only lurked and am really excited to be on a place that might be up and coming compared to feeling like I got throw in the deep end.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

Same here. Mostly a lurker or commenter. Probably posted like 3 things ever.

[–] Eclipciz 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Same — after seeing how similar it could be to Apollo (thanks wefwef), I got very excited to be a part of a greater movement towards a defederated platform, especially as I learned more about it.

It’s like being a part of a giant email server that large corporations don’t have minute detail controlled to maximize profit.

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[–] sigmatankworld 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know that this will get as huge as reddit was, but the number of comments I've seen here has doubled/tripled in the past few weeks, to the point where if Lemmy doesn't ever grow much more than this, I think this is a sustainable mass of people right now to keep a good network effect going

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[–] OsakaWilson 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I mod a 21 thousand member sub on Reddit and opened a similar one here. I put several relevant posts to get things started and let people on the sub know we are here with a tutorial on how to sign up and explanation on why it is good to have an alternate.

I now have about 20 members, a few coming each day. However no one has posted or replied at all.

Another community I created has a similar result.

I know there is a threshold of activity that stimulates more activity, but so far its not happening. I've started many active subreddits, including one in the 1% with half a million subscribers. I'm not new to community building. I'm honestly concerned.

I want to encourage everyone to post and comment in the little communities you have joined. You will be contributing to this whole project when you do.

[–] foxrumor 4 points 2 years ago

60,000 people just isn't enough yet to keep every niche community active. If the growth continues at the rate it has been though, I could see double or triple the members in a few months changing things.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 years ago

You weren't around for Usenet. It was great, then social media took over.

[–] solstice 11 points 2 years ago (4 children)

It'll come and go like all the rest. AOL, AIM, IRC, message boards, myspace, livejournal, digg, fark, slashdot, reddit, lemmy...???

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

For the most part I agree with you - the best I can hope for is that the fedi philosophy persists in some way, even if it's still a little niche. I don't even expect any of this to become 100% mainstream.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I worked at bebo, does anyone still know it today? 😂

[–] jk47 3 points 2 years ago

Yes! I got suspended at school for drawing a rude picture of my teacher on the "Wall" feature bebo had haha

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[–] bappity 11 points 2 years ago

I don't want to jinx anything but really hope this platform will continue to grow. love the atmosphere right now!

[–] Sanctus 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It all depends on the community and if it will keep growing.

[–] Eclipciz 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Is there a general amount of people required though? I’m not sure what the numbers are right now but I imagine it can’t be super high even compared to big subreddits.

[–] Sanctus 6 points 2 years ago

Interaction matters more than numbers. As long as there are people posting, commenting, and sharing it will thrive.

[–] j4k3 6 points 2 years ago

The larger the group the more chances there are for obscure expertise. I have no idea when the numbers really start to have diminishing returns and fail to attract specialization, especially across timezones so that there is someone that sees a post and replies. There are likely no relevant statistics for Lemmy. Initially, Lemmy was perceived as having a learning curve as a barrier to entry before .world was really established as the main instance. Like, this is one of the reasons the Self Hosted community is so large here. A minor technical barrier likely increases the level of technical expertise of the initial userbase. In addition this place naturally favors the FOSS conscious community. That user base is far more technically capable than the average internet user. We are still well under pre rexxit internet levels. I can ask questions on several subjects and only get one or two replies that don't provide solid answers. I joined .world on June 9th. There were 1.21k total users here. This was the same size as beehaw then, and .ml had 1.6k total. I couldn't even see kbin from .world because they were totally defederated. All of Lemmy had somewhere around 500 active users at any one time, IMO, from what I could see then. This place basically only had one active community everyone posed on within .world. Beehaw had a half dozen that were active and around the same on .ml.

Hopefully that gives you a solid perspective on the trajectory, numbers, and where this is headed. I think it is already past the threshold for self driving growth. Baring a major change from Ruud, this place is established and will continue to grow regardless of reddit's kiddie porn mod and IPO whore of a CEO.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)
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[–] normalmighty 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't think it's the start, but I think something's happening. The internet has just been through an incredibly stable period for 10 years or so, but I that finally came to an end a year or 2 back. There have been lots of smaller social media platforms popping up for a while now, and I think the landscape is finally becoming less stable and more dynamic again.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago

I feel like the fediverse might take off, but not because of Lemmy.

I was a deep lurker on Reddit and a RIF user so when shit hit the fan I heard about Lemmy.

However I never use Twitter, but before learning about the fediverse because of Lemmy I already heard casual mention about Mastodon. I feel Mastodon will be the first to reach a really wide audience and once the public is comfortable with using federated networks then Lemmy might gain mainstream appeal.

Regardless of what happens, something has to give and I'm excited to see the old titans drop to their knees for once (and Twitter doing a faceplant).

A federated internet feels like a good balance between free speech and moderation. And decentralized non-profits feel like they'll be more stable than the venture capitalist sugar daddies Silicon Valley has relied on.

[–] AlecSadler 8 points 2 years ago

I think so, but Reddit didn't replace Digg overnight, so I don't think this will either. I think inside of a year we'll see significant growth.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I hope it is. I don't yet feel strongly about the fediverse/Lemmy specifically just yet, but everything online just feels... off, right now. So many sites all somewhat self-destructing (twitter, reddit, youtube, etc) all seemingly at the same time. I've been around for quite a lot of change as far as technology/internet goes in general, but I feel like it's felt relatively stable over the last 10 years or so. I feel like I experienced a ton of very quick change from like 2000-2010 or so, and then not much after that (just some new social media sites and whatnot, but not really big changes overall?). Now it sort of feels like it did back in the 2000s, which is giving me hope that maybe things are about to change in general!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The fediverse is a return to something bigger, not something new. An influx of users will hopefully help things get to where they should be.

Email never went away, but for some reason has been the only federated protocol with real staying power so far.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

The plethora of fully fleshed out apps in the next few weeks, and the ability to have instances that operate independently from the main ones will insure at least a significant popularity imo.

[–] Drunemeton 4 points 2 years ago

It will if we spread the word!

[–] Pixxiey 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I hope so! I've spent the last 24 hours learning the ropes, and I'm still unsure on a good bit but feeling confident. I'm really concerned though that the initial account setup is going to chase off a lot of people who can't figure it out and give up.

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[–] tallwookie 2 points 2 years ago

there's very few actual people here still - and they're in a lot of separate instances, instances that may not even be federating with the instances that we are on (those that allow you to post and me to respond).

there's potential, but it's a matter of time - and it's going to be quite a while for things to kick into high gear

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