this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023

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The Russian economy is in bad shape, no matter what the Kremlin says: Russian economist (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/news

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[–] Brainsploosh 16 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It's hard to gauge the veracity of this during the ongoing information warfare, but one detail struck me as funny:

Around 20 million people in Russia — or 14% of the population — are on the brink of poverty or already in poverty, said Lipsits.

This is supposedly after two years of wars and sanctions.

Official US gov statistics puts the US peacetime number at 11,5 - 12,4 %

The official poverty rate in 2022 was 11.5 percent, with 37.9 million people in poverty. ... The Supplemental Poverty Measure in 2022 was 12.4 percent.

I wonder if this is meant as a disinformation piece?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are the stated poverties in the US and Russia of the same poverty definition? If the instrument is for example relative poverty, a reduction of affluence for everyone (eg through reduction of GDP) is not trivially comparable.

I wonder if there's an instrument that combines poverty and debt sustainability as a measure for the sustainability of a society's access to resources.

[–] Fades 0 points 1 year ago

Nah they just wanted to vent emotions instead of actually thinking thru the bullshit they posted.

It is most definitely not the same calculation by far

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's poverty and there's Poverty. A quick google suggests Russia and the World Bank define poverty in Russia as having an income of under 10,000 rubles per month. Roughly $110.

I don't think people in the west can grasp what true poverty looks like. We're talking selling your kids, eating tree bark or even cannibalism as was surprisingly widespread during the Cultural Revolution.

Russia's not that bad, especially the larger cities, but some parts of Russia are still really deprived as they never fully recovered from the collapse of the USSR.

I am however surprised that the number's only 14%. I googled and the number was similar a few years ago.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the bigger indicator of how bad things are in Russia is that during the initial invasion, Russian troops were confused and delighted by such modern machines as running toilets and washing machines.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

But that's the point. Russia was doing terrible anyway. Is this new 14% poverty rate any worse than when the war started and they were stealing toilets to begin with.

I mean I have no idea, but this article doesn't show evidence one way or the other.

[–] charliespider 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that's after throwing thousands of poor people into the meat grinder in Ukraine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Hundreds of thousands*

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Can't have high poverty rates if you kill all the poor people in your war 🤔

[–] Hotdogman 7 points 1 year ago

Economist is about to get a lesson in freefall aerodynamics.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Russia has actually been doing a competent job with their financial situation, but they're still trading a better short term situation with a lot of long term problems. I don't know when exactly those will catch up, but they can't push them off forever. Here's more info from William Spaniel.

https://youtu.be/ecdxs8Al424

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Every hexbear is willing to nuke every civillian on the planet that disagrees.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Lipsits' comments shed some light on Russia's seemingly resilient wartime economy, which is booming...

Russia's gross domestic product grew 5.5% in the third quarter from a year ago...

But the growth isn't translating into affluence for many Russians on the ground."

Welcome to the fucking club! This could be a description of most G-whatever countries tbh.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep - they’re on par with EU market, or just above. They’re not hurting much more than they previously were.

It’s mock sanctions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What are you saying?! Shell have had an absolute bumper couple of years! I keep reading promises that Russia's economy is about to collapse, but for realsies this time. Time will tell. Everyone is lying now, we'll see who was right by the end of the decade (probably).

Meanwhile, the instability now is the best thing since sliced COVID for massive wealth transfer from poorer to richer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m saying that the Russian economy expanded just as much as EU economy this year, or maybe a bit more.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Yes, i agree with you. Or at least, i wouldn't say you can credibly refute our position. You xsn posit and claim, but i believe it's propaganda until the truth comes out over a king time.