this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
540 points (93.3% liked)

Memes

45894 readers
794 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
all 48 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 105 points 1 year ago (5 children)

You know their answer will be that the homeless just need to work harder.

[–] FlyingSquid 85 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And "stop doing drugs" as if homeless people are the only drug users and the rich never use them.

[–] DaCookeyMonsta 43 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've started getting angry when people declare that they refuse to give money to people begging because they'll just use it on drugs. More because of how frequently it comes up.

They aren't obliged to help anyone but just assuming every homeless person is a drug addict is so condescending.

And even if they were they are still a person and the money they beg for will is some part contribute to feeding them. You can't subsist off of drugs.

I see the same people burn money on the dumbest shit but act like giving money to homeless people is a sin against God.

[–] FlyingSquid 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If a homeless person is going to use that money for drugs or alcohol, good. I would too if I was homeless and needed to forget it for a little while.

[–] EmpathicVagrant 1 points 1 year ago

The only reason not to give food, clothing, or cash is because I’m already late for work or I have nothing to spare right now. I try to find something even if it’s just a smoke or something.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Assuming those other people are all bad or at the very least less than the good people?

Using that as a reason to not help people? And love sharing it?

Using the same money on dumb wasteful shit for yourself?

I think the people you’re running into are just run of the mill conservatives.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you posting these links in reply to me because you think I am suggesting the homeless need to work harder?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No just resources, if you had that conversation with a coworker.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks, sorry for the misinterpretation!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago
[–] motor_spirit 3 points 1 year ago

Luckily they unionized..

[–] pyromaster55 -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Exactly that. Homelessness isn't a social issue that needs to be solved, it's the consequences of the unhomed's poor choices and absolutely nothing else.

Arguing with willful ignorance is fucking exhausting, you literally can't get them to see past their blind beliefs because most of them wear "you can't change my mind" like a badge of honor.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

It is a social issue. People being incapable of taking care of themselves is inevitable. All civilizations had these issues. Families, churches and general generosity of neighbors have always been used to mitigate this.

Now with the wealth gap increasing and the individualistic philosophy in our society with not noticing and tending to these early on. We only notice once the person is a full blown junkie. Many needed help for a a short moment in life and could of become autonomous after, many are both permanently incapable of autonomy. Either way society have to deal with them. We have enough resources! For the price of just one of those opulent pick up we could probably shelter one person for 2-5 years.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Not so much willful ignorance as backwards reasoning. They desperately want to believe the world is fair and they earned whatever success they've had in their lives, so they adopt beliefs that lead to those conclusions.

I struggled with it a lot in my 20s. If you've grown up with the idea that the world is basically a pretty decent place, it's hard to accept how fucked up everything is, so there's a natural tendency to try to explain away the things you learn about so you don't have to confront the harsh reality directly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

it’s the consequences of the unhomed’s poor choices and absolutely nothing else.

Classical Liberal / Libertarian here and this is wrong. Life can be massively unfair / unkind and it's not unusual for people, even ones who make solid choices, to end up in bad situations.

What so many of my Libertarian fellows seem to miss is that we're allowed to have empathy. Do I want the Government taking my money to redistribute it? Absolutely not but that does not excuse us from acting on our own. In fact I'd argue we have MORE of an obligation for individual action to help those less fortunate.

Come at me.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

"Libertarian" always seems like a misnomer. Libertarians only want people like themselves to experience liberty. They aim to do nothing to address inequities like social and systemic discrimination against LGBT+ people, BIPOC, women, and others. They aim to do nothing to address poverty. It's social darwinism at its ugliest. This is why they are practically indistinguishable from conservatives here in the US -- the way they arrive may look different, but the outcomes are the same. At best, they are wearing blinders. At worst, they actively support the power structures and systems that result in things like poverty and abuse.

People who legitimately do seek liberty should instead be looking to things like anarchism, which is interested in addressing the root causes of all of these problems, such as hierarchies and the state.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Libertarian" used to be a synonym for left-wing anarchism until Murray Rothbard purposefully co-opted the term and even bragged about it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Yep it's just a propaganda campaign.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fellow left-wing anarchists: should we just give up on trying to reclaim this word? What do you call yourself among people who don't know the context?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

In Europe it's way more ambiguous. Also: you can simply specify "left-wing", or "right-wing" libertarian.

I usually just say "anarchist", though ;)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

People who legitimately do seek liberty should instead be looking to things like anarchism

Interestingly, 'libertarian' was originally a euphemism for 'anarchist', until it was co-opted by the right

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You can't fully experience liberty unless everyone is free

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is equality and there is equity. Libertarians are for equality even if it creates non-equity.

Let me give an abstract example so that it is not politically charged. Suppose that there are green-skinned people in our society that for some historical reason value writing poetry above all else. And they are trying to earn their living by writing poetry and sometimes having second part time usually low paid job to support themselves.

Libertarian would say that these green people has absolute right to do so, and face consequences of their choice. This is liberty.
People who advocate equality would say - no, there is systemic green-ism that leads to green people being consistently underpaid, having less percent of them in high level jobs like CEO, and so on. They then propose all sorts of laws that will treat green people differently so that the average salary, average number of CEOs per 100,000 population and other similar metrics associated with “success” are the same for green people. This kind of differential treatment of green people is absolutely against to liberty minded people, that includes libertarians, that think that the laws should be the same to all people, regardless of their skin color, genetics and so on.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting that the systemic discrimination in your case is due to a conscious choice and not systemic discrimination.

You describe the origins of “starving artist” and not “oppressed race” IMO.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I assumed he was loosely referring to religion. "Go forth and multiply" [regardless of available support] is a huge source of suffering in the world.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I've had this conversation, he thought everything would be fine if we eliminated zoning laws.

[–] Adori 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hell yeah, now Industry can have its workers live next to them, no more commutes! They'll be so healthy :) /s

[–] ignotum 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seriously though, being able to work somewhere that's within walking distance, so it's possible to have a job without also needing a car or spending hours taking the bus, is a great advantage for the person as well

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I agree which is why I think remote work is the way to go for jobs that it can work for.

However, I think that guy was talking about industry pollution messing up the environment around. But I think that's a separate issue entirely and needs to be handled by another set of laws.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I mean, wasn't the elimination (or extreme relaxation by American standards) of zoning laws one of the ways Tokyo has been able to afford to house so many people at such affordable rates?

Not saying we need kindergartens between the sewage recycling plant and the land fill, but being able to build housing over shopping centers would be nice.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Their actual answer is volunteer donations.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Easy: Let them starve and the invisible hand will take care of their bodies

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Something, something, invisible hand of the free market and Social Darwinism. Dead people can't be in poverty, right? Problem solved!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I like this meme, and praise Dale raise hell, but I really like Jeff Gordon :/

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

if there's enough people who can't afford a home, there will suddenly be a lot more homes on the housing market - thought that one was obvious... /s

[–] ThePyroPython 4 points 1 year ago

Raise Hell, Praise Dale!

[–] karakoram 3 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wonder why communist China has so many homeless if homelessness is a feature of capitalism

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Got any sources on Chinese homeless populations compared to American homeless populations?