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Fedora Linux 39 Released As A Wonderful Upgrade For Leading Workstations & Servers (www.phoronix.com)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] atmur 16 points 8 months ago

For every major Fedora update I'll try to perform the upgrade from the Gnome Software app just to see if it works, and every time it breaks and I fall back to good ol' dnf system-upgrade. This is the first time upgrading from Software worked for me, and it was fast too. Nice to see all the Software improvements finally paying off.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Now I understand why some people in the comments from other platform said "Fedora is the new Ubuntu"; in popular perspective today! Loud applause to the Fedora Dev team! Respect.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

While delayed by several weeks compared to their initial release goals, today marks the availability of Fedora 39 as a wonderful upgrade to this popular Linux distribution.

Fedora Workstation 39 makes use of the GNOME 45 desktop for having all of the latest open-source desktop capabilities, the LibreOffice 7.6 office suite, LLVM 17 compiler stack available, and many other updated packages available.

Fedora 39 is shipping with the Linux 6.5 kernel although newer versions will come down as stable release updates.

Fedora 39 also has various toolchain upgrades such as GCC 13.2 with GNU Binutils 2.40, Glibc 2.38, and other updates.

I've also been running Fedora Workstation 39 on my main production system already: the Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 7840U.

I'll be delivering some additional Fedora 39 Linux benchmarks in the coming days on Phoronix.

The original article contains 211 words, the summary contains 141 words. Saved 33%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I am thinking of switching from Linux Mint to Fedora. I have always liked Fedora, but have been bitten by some BS like NVIDIA drivers not working and some programs only available as a .deb file (I know about alien... or do I?)

I love GNOME DE, has that modern "I work on a spaceship" feel.

I mostly do music production and some gaming, so pipewire seems intriguing.

Here is the real question: Should I got Silverblue? I just learned about distrobox, so maybe that is my solution for programs I cannot get through flatpak?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You can install silverblue, and then rebase to ublue ( https://universal-blue.org/ ). Specifically to the "silverblue-nvidia" variant, and you should get a nice silverblue experience without any of the nvidia struggles, as people at the ublue project take care of that stuff for you.

And yes, distrobox is the goto solution to run stuff that is basically ubuntu-only, or by extension bound to any distro variant / version and not flatpak. This includes graphical applications. Distrobox works great, I do all my work in it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nice! Looks like I have a fun night ahead of me!

Thank you for showing me uBlue! I want to avoid os-tree if I can, since that seems to defeat the purpose.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I want to avoid os-tree if I can, since that seems to defeat the purpose.

How so?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Oh, I totally misunderstood the OS. I was under the impression that using os-tree should be totally avoided for anything other than necessary system programs, and all other software should be installed with flatpaks or containers.

I now understand that using os-tree for some programs is inevitable, and I should embrace it, though still catiously to maintain as clean of an OS as possible for maximum longevity.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I was under the impression that using os-tree should be totally avoided for anything other than necessary system programs

Interaction with ostree directly shouldn't occur that often; with sudo ostree admin pin *number* (and its -u option) probably being the commands your average Joe should interact with. You probably meant rpm-ostree.

and all other software should be installed with flatpaks or containers.

It's indeed true that initially Fedora intended flatpaks should be preferred. If the software isn't available there, then Toolbx(/Distrobox) is used to access it through a container. And if all else fails, then it's layered through the rpm-ostree command.

I now understand that using os-tree for some programs is inevitable, and I should embrace it, though still catiously to maintain as clean of an OS as possible for maximum longevity.

You're getting the drill! Though, I wonder why you weren't able to rebase to uBlue and had to resort to installing the Nvidia drivers through RPM Fusion instead. It's fine as long as it works, but I imagine that some issues might arise eventually. So consider sharing the steps you took so that the community might help out; perhaps even over at uBlue Discord. You could also just share it here if you will.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, I just followed the steps here: https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/NVIDIA#OSTree_.28Silverblue.2FKinoite.2Fetc.29

I was diligent about following the configuration guide first: https://rpmfusion.org/Configuration

I think the key is restarting at every step it asks you to, and maybe after anything that seems major or is a prerequisite for another set of program installs. I mean, I got a black screen the first time, but after a hard reset, it just worked.

No doubt UBlue is probably a lot easier. I did not realize I could have just downloaded the ISO instead of trying to rebase, but I like what I am running.

Anyways, doing it the hard way is helping me learn the intricacies of an immutable system, so I am having fun.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Ah, I got it now thanks for the explanation!

Indeed, in your case acquiring uBlue through its ISO was probably the best option; but I'm glad to hear that it worked out in the end!

Anyways, doing it the hard way is helping me learn the intricacies of an immutable system, so I am having fun.

Well said!

Just in case; consider the following:

Pin your current working deployment with the aforementioned sudo ostree admin pin 0 command. After which it remains accessible regardless unless you unpin it later on. This should allow you a working deployment if all else fails and thus a safe haven to rely on.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Oh nice! I will do that. I see this as save scumming for real life!

Speaking of, save scumming is a habit I need to rid myself of. I need to allow myself to fail in Baldur's Gate and other games.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

I see this as save scumming for real life!

Hehe, great analogy :P !

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I saw that the image was failing to build, so I took a chance and followed the RPMFUSION guide and installed it successfully. I am learning to use toolbox for CLI stuff, but now I am going to learn about Distrobox!!

[+] danielfgom -64 points 8 months ago (2 children)

We really need to all stop promoting Fedora especially after what Red Hat did to the Community with CentOS and closing the code off from downstream.

Fedora is Red Hat in disguise.

Same goes for Canonical. They've decided to screw the Community and try force things on users, Communist style, so they can f right off too!

We should all only use 100% Community based distros and projects because they need our support and break their backs working for the Community.

For example Linux Mint, Debian, Arch, Slackware and others.

If you use Mint like I do, switch to Debian Edition and let the developers know that's where you prefer that focus first and then do the Ubuntu edition afterwards 👍

[–] [email protected] 56 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Fedora is community based and "independent" from RedHat.

In the past, they often actively decided against RHs interests and will continue doing that in the future.
Independend in " because RH puts lots of dev power and $ into the Fedora Project, and loosing that would hurt.

It's a symbiotic relationship: RH provides money and developers, while we as users test for new technologies that will get used for RHEL in the future.

The increased ressources provides us with more (also financial) security. Still, if RH somehow decides to abandon Fedora, it will still continue to live on, see Project uBlue as example.

Also, calling everything you dislike "communist" is just dumb, there are way better words for that... Either, you use communism in the terms of "totalitarian government" like Stalin was, which is just... unfitting (Holodomor, etc.); or you don't get that promoting community based distros is more socialist than you realize.

Just say "I don't like stuff forced on me from corporations like Canonical" and don't use Ubuntu and thereof. Nobody hinders you in using what you want, and that's great!

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago

But you don't understand - I have reputable sources telling me that Linux is communism!

[–] TheGrandNagus 22 points 8 months ago

People have absolutely lost their damn minds over the RH thing lol

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

The reaction is funny too, because in my experience comparing communities of various distros, Fedora's community is among the the most inviting and professionally-behaving of them.

Personally, I am not running Fedora at the moment, but probably will when my Framework 16 arrives, since Fedora is officially supported on it. And to be honest, I find that I am making the same choices with Arch as Fedora would have made for me (aside from bootloader), so I feel that I'm wasting a bit of effort.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Fedora is like it or not one of the most influential and important Distros out there.

Fedora is and will always be cutting edge. They early adopt projects and technologies that absolutely become the standard.

No other distro has this much influence. SystemD, Pipe wire, and other such projects are the norm because Fedora pushed it.

And like it or not, Fedora will make this move very soon with Wayland. Wayland is our inevitable future, like it or not.

I don't see Arch, Debian, and others pushing things like this, but rather falling in line with Fedora.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Fedora is and will always be ~~cutting~~ leading edge.

Fixed that for you ;) .

[+] danielfgom -14 points 8 months ago (4 children)

That's why we should stop using them. If they have zero users, they'll eventually stop the Fedora project and the Community can keep pace with Debian or openSuse. openSuse can easily step into Fedora and Red Hat's shoes.

[–] ysjet 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Instead of trying to tear down things that work, try building up the distros that don't.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

But that sounds like work. It's a lot easier to shit on other people's volunteer efforts than to actually contribute anything constructive yourself.

[–] Mane25 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If they have zero users, they’ll eventually stop the Fedora project

That would be a very sad loss.

[+] danielfgom -6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No. It's what they deserve for screwing over the community. Let them pay for beta testers instead of getting free beta testing from the community

[–] Mane25 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Try not to believe everything you read by random people online, Red Hat pays people to work on Fedora, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[–] danielfgom -3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I know they pay Fedora work because most of the employees ARE full time Red Hat employees.

Hence my point that the user is the free beta tester for Enterprise software.

Stop being a free beta tester for a Mega Corp that hates the Linux Community. Rather use Debian, Arch or another Community developed OS.

[–] Mane25 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

First of all you've swallowed the myth that Fedora users are beta testing for Enterprise software. That said discouraging people from voluntarily beta testing is bad for the community and fundamentally against the spirit of open source.

As a long-time Fedora user I think Red Hat's backing is good for Fedora because it means they have a solid source of funding. Apart from the resources that gives them, that way they can be entirely user-centric and not be tempted to sell user data, run ads or anything else against the users' interests.

There's a lot of hearsay going on around Red Hat at the moment, some of it has grains of truth, some of it has been distorted beyond fact, I'm sorry that you're a victim of it.

[–] danielfgom -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Beta testing is great. Just not when it's for Red Hat(Fedora), Canonical, Microsoft (WSL) or any other Greedy Corp. when they are requesting this in the spirit of open source.

Rather beta test for Debian

[–] Mane25 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not how open source works, you don't get to choose who benefits from it, it's for anyone who wants to use it. Ubuntu is downstream of Debian is it not?

[–] danielfgom 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well Red Hat put up a paywall so that only those who they choose, can get the code. That's the issue. Then they justified it by calling users who want the code "free loaders". That's typical proprietary speak, it has no place in open source.

Ubuntu is downstream of Debian. But canonical have taken it, forced snaps on users, forced opt out telemetry in users and removed default flatpak support. All very user hostile moves.

Hence I'm calling the community to show these corps we don't need them and community distros have everything we need while protecting user freedom.

[–] Mane25 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Remember what I said about hearsay? Everything in Fedora is FOSS, everything in RHEL is also FOSS (because it's in CentOS Stream). All the code is released, not behind a "paywall". All that Red Hat have done is make it more difficult for companies to sell a 1:1 "bug for bug compatible" RHEL clone - those are the "free loaders" being spoken of and who they're targeting, not the Linux community, it's people like Oracle (who incidentally are also the ones fanning the flames of this drama).

I'm no fan of Canonical, but even with your description you're really sensationalising things there as well. The point is by supporting Debian you're inadvertently supporting Canonical - I don't think that's a problem myself but it seems you have double standards.

[–] danielfgom 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I would like to quote for you from Gnu.org, Richard Stallman's organization that invented the idea of free software. Here he explains what that means. I'll link to the full webpage below.

"Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can.** If a license does not permit users to make copies and sell them, it is a nonfree license.** If this seems surprising to you, please read on.

The word “free” has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer either to freedom or to price. When we speak of “free software,” we're talking about freedom, not price. (Think of “free speech,” not “free beer.”) Specifically, it means that a user is free to run the program, study and change the program, and redistribute the program with or without changes."

(Emphasis mine)

Source: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

As you can see, anyone who obtains the code CAN redistribute it unchanged, bug for bug......

I rest my case.

[–] Mane25 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You haven't even made a case to rest.

[–] danielfgom 0 points 7 months ago

Can you read? Read the full article.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Why would this be a good thing at all? One of the main goals of the ecosystem is to have multiple choices, and as others in this thread has mentioned, Fedoras made significant progress for the adoption of Linux as a whole

[+] danielfgom -7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Because you'd be helping Community distros get better, as well as financially, instead of supporting corporations that use you as beta testers to improve their paid corporate product and then screw you over when you want access to the server code.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I still don’t see how having the choice is a bad thing. If you don’t like Red Hats position, then don’t use Fedora. For those that believe using Fedora will help better the Open Source ecosystem, they have the ability to do so.

Getting rid of a choice completely because you don’t agree with a position in a nuanced conversation seems childish

[–] danielfgom -1 points 7 months ago

I'm not saying it will be banned, you can still use it but I'm calling the community to return to community distros like Debian who are 100% libre and user freedom respecting.. Plus there many dedicated developers and other volunteers who support this out of love for FOSS and the principles of free computing for all.

That's not childish. It's a call to get back to our roots. Use Community distros, volunteer your time if you have the skills they need, make a money donation to thank them and help the project keep going. That's how FOSS is supposed to work.

By the Community, for the Community 💪

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

OpenSuse has a very well defined pipeline:

Tumbleweed -> Leap (maybe Slowroll) -> SLE.

OpenSuse is not going to break new ground. It's all about OBS and testing software before it hits their Paid Enterprise offerings. And they have almost a fully automated procedure for this. OpenSuse is not going to push Wayland only nor what will become the standard. It's not in their ethos. OpenSuse is there to build SLE's next release.

Debian being cutting edge?! Never. Debian is Debian, very slow to adopt anything. Debian is about offering a very stable release schedule. Debian will never push the ecosystem forward, it's not Debian's goal. You want a reliable system that just works? Debian is inarguably the king.

[–] danielfgom 0 points 7 months ago

Agree 100%. And both are 100% Community. openSuse is privately owned and supported by a massive Community.

Debian is perfect for reliability (although opensuse is very reliable) who don't need the latest and don't like installing updates all the time. 100% Community based.

Two fantastic, shining examples of the power of Community supported software 💪