this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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You Should Know

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MODERATORS
 

Why you should know: StackOverflow is facing a mod strike in a similar way as Reddit's mod strike. They are doing this in response to StackOverflow's failure to address it's promises and provide moderation tools

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[–] lettruthout 154 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Thank you for posting this. I had no idea this was going on. What are companies thinking when they implement policies that hamper volunteers? You'd think they'd want to engage, and keep happy, these people that give their time.

[–] jkure2 68 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Companies don't even care beyond bare minimum for the labor that they pay why would they care about the labor they don't lol

[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 years ago

"What are companies thinking"

It turns out I actually have the ability to convert thoughts to text for any company CEO or Board Member. So allow me to post an excerpt of what I've found:

"moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneyiwishepsteinwerestillheremoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney"

[–] axtualdave 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What are companies thinking when they implement policies that hamper volunteers?

"Money!"

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[–] Clbull 127 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Unlike Reddit, Stack Overflow would probably be better without moderators.

In fact, you could easily replace Stack Overflow mods with a script that goes into every new question, comments "USE THE FUCKING SEARCH BAR" and locks the thread.

[–] Rotten_potato 18 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I don't think so: Stack Overflow requires much more moderation for the comments and answers to actually stay on topic and be somewhat professional. Especially the "don't just link somewhere, explain the thing" rule might require a lot of moderation.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Replace them with a script that goes into every comment and put "duplicate of existing post".

Even if there is no existing post.

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[–] daniskarma 82 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Duplicated, here's a link to a totally unrelated question made 10 years ago that didn't got any answer anyway.

[–] maybe 21 points 2 years ago

OMG these responses drive me bananas. I'm searching for a code solution and I keep landing on "Duplicated" dead ends with dead end links posted as the solution. Why do they leave it just sitting there?? WHY????

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[–] alertsleeper 57 points 2 years ago (7 children)

I really hope protesting social media/websites owner's BS becomes a regular practice

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I agree, but on the other hand if we moved to decentralized platforms no strikes would be necessary. People only do this, because a company is holding their content as a hostage.

[–] abhibeckert 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children)

Striking will just be replaced with defederation. For example lemmy.world has been defederated by a bunch of instances because it allows anyone to sign up for an account.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Me: Good for them, that's great hope they get want they want.

Me, to myself, in bed at night: Oh god how will I code

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

At least we have readily available AI tools to help

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Fun fact: the stack exchange for research mathematics, MathOverflow, is a separate 501(c)(3) nonprofit which at any time can pack up their stuff and migrate, including their domain name and all of their data, per the agreement they made when they joined the stack exchange network in 2013, originally operating the site themselves since 2009.

https://meta.mathoverflow.net/questions/969/who-owns-mathoverflow/970#970

While the MathOverflow site is operated by Stack Exchange, Inc., the domain and the MathOverflow name are owned by the MathOverflow corporation. The MathOverflow corporation is completely independent from Stack Exchange and its mission is to ensure the continued operation of the site in a manner that meets the needs and expectations of the community.

Subject to Section 8, should MathOverflow wish to migrate its data outside of the Stack Exchange network, Stack Exchange shall, within thirty (30) days of receipt of a written request from MathOverflow, provide MathOverflow with a complete and current database that contains all the data necessary to recreate MathOverflow on MathOverflow's own servers and software. Following such transfer, Stack Exchange will cease all use of the MathOverflow database.

If they don't like how the site is being run, they can leave. Food for thought. If all communities on the internet were so careful and prescient to plan an exit strategy in advance, to make clear that you just operate our site and we can leave for a competitor, we'd not be in this mess.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If all communities on the internet were so careful and prescient to plan an exit strategy in advance, to make clear that you just operate our site and we can leave for a competitor, we’d not be in this mess.

That's why God invented the GPL.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago

If only /r/AskHistorians were this prescient.

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[–] HexesofVexes 49 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Entire programming industry is about to panic!

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 98 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Closed: This question has already been answered 5 years ago here <link to completely unrelated question>

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 years ago

Better yet: "this question has been answered here <link to old question, answer does not work/doesnt apply or work anymore>"

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[–] zephyr 37 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Is there a FOSS alternative to stackexchange yet?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

All open source forum software pretty much

[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Yeah, before StackOverflow took over everything my web searches for programming problems would usually lead to forum threads. The quality of information would usually be better there, too.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (14 children)

Unpopular opinion: for a beginner, ChatGPT gives way better answers than stackoverflow users. The advantage of ChatGPT is that I can command it to dumb it down. Stackoverflow users are used to answer in a language that resembles the language in documentations. They are dry, abstract, lack good examples to the point that the "foobar" shit triggers an immediate defensive reaction in my brain and are phrased for people who already understood a concept but need to refresh their knowledge. Their core problem, as is tradition in any IT field, is that they lack the empathy to understand the viewpoint of someone who understands less of something than they do. It's like asking someone to teach you reading and getting a poem with the advice to just read it as an answer.

I can circumvent that via ChatGPT by asking it to ELI5. Also, I get an answer instantly, am not discouraged to ask further questions and not advised to read a link where a solution is offered in an equally difficult language.

People are saying that using ChatGPT doesn't give accurate information and fails to convey important concepts, but I feel it's actually the other way around. Since there is ChatGPT, I'm making way more progress than before.

I understand that users don't want AI answers, but I also don't get why anyone would want that on this platform. You can just, you know, use AI directly.

[–] Crackhappy 38 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think that one issue with using AI to help you solve programming problems is that sometimes it will wholesale make things up. Of course, people can do that too, which is why communities of coders can vote on the best answer. I say, more power to you, using the tools that work for you. Just be cautious.

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[–] veroxii 31 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That's not unpopular. But there is a problem. ChatGPT can answer your questions mostly because it was trained on the posts and answers of sites like StackOverflow.

If people abandon SO and similar forums then the quality of ChatGPTs answers will go down too.

Especially with something like programming. It's always changing. Next year there will be new versions of C++ and python. There will be new JS frameworks as always. It doesn't stand still.

And without new discussions about new problems, there's nowhere for ChatGPT to learn about them.

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[–] Crackhappy 14 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I think that one issue with using AI to help you solve programming problems is that sometimes it will wholesale make things up. Of course, people can do that too, which is why communities of coders can vote on the best answer. I say, more power to you, using the tools that work for you. Just be cautious.

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[–] tdawg 30 points 2 years ago

good for them. Organizing and taking action is the only way to get capitalists to listen

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 years ago

Always surprised by companies outsourcing all their moderation to unpaid volunteers and then act shocked when they’re ready to pause their work.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 years ago

Check out Codidact for a community run alternative!

[–] armchair_progamer 20 points 2 years ago

Thankfully SO is better than Reddit: the frontend is actually decent and even though they're pausing data dumps, everything posted is technically CC-SA

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Fuuuuuuuuuuck. Welp. That's it. The internet is closed for business. Thanks for stopping by

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

If even the elitist programmers at stack overflow that know everything and discourage questions from users that treat it as some sort of question and answers site can be effected by companies taking from the communities, it can happen to anyone.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Damn, nowhere to find coding help anymore I guess

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

github isssues.
Once you have a basic level of coding your problem is with a certain package/library

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[–] Katana314 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So...was the strike because they put a 100-strike limit on moderators marking normal questions as Duplicate/Opinionated/Unclear? Or, because all of the normal users left and it's just spam trolls left behind?

Ahhh, it's because of divisions of opinion on AI. No doubt, it'd be easy to tell ChatGPT "ChatGPT, can you come up with excuses to lock all the questions on the front page so my query about Scala stays up top?"

[–] SuperSoftAbby 15 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I'm constantly baffled by my coding professor suggesting stackoverflow to students for asking questions because of the experience I am seeing others have there. The new ones are always downvoted and the only reply usually just calls the person stupid. I'd just kinda accepted that this was the culture I was going to matriculate into when I graduate.

[–] zeppo 24 points 2 years ago

It was good when it was relatively new. The culture quickly turned toxic, as you're seeing, and it's been getting steadily worse for years now. There is a lot of useful information, and often the only thing online with code examples for a certain programming issue. but it is also increasingly outdated, in part due to the 'no repeat questions' thing. I have a couple popular answers about PHP and JavaScript from over 12 years ago, and they still get upvoted. Some people comment and say "this is answer is incorrect!" and... yeah, it's from 2009.

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[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer 13 points 2 years ago

Instead of hoping that the corporation will change, they should just move to the fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I never got any help asking questions there anyways. Answers I got back we’re trollish. When I provide and answer it can’t be the answer as it’s based on your own reputation score which you can’t get but answering questions. It seems like a flawed system. Didn’t know they had mods either. Never really got any solutions either from stack overflow, unless you read every comment for the right answer.

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