this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
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To be clear, not talking about this community, obviously πŸ˜›.

What's the point of writing down rules, if mods just do what they want? But I suppose that's the risk you take when you call someone a liar in a small community; they might be a mod.

Edit: I'm not trying to say that mods suck, they perform a useful and often thankless job. Just that it can be difficult for small communities to get a healthy number of good mods, which can become a problem.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I get the feeling you're speaking from experience

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your honor, the prosecution is sullying the defendant’s reputation

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Your honor, the prosecution just hit me with a whip

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Lol perhaps πŸ˜…

It was a small community dedicated to shit talking another community, neither of which I was part of. A few posts showed up in my feed and one had a take I thought was kinda unreasonable, so I commented. I had a nice discussion with one community member, but OP came in hot. After a half-hearted effort to try to defuse, and being blatantly lied to in a few replies, I just told him he was a conniving liar.

A few days later I tried to comment on a different post, but I was banned.

Not a big deal, I'm not invested in either community, but it made me think of the struggles growing Lenny from these small nascent communities, into more more mature communities.

[–] saltesc 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy is riddled with echo chambers, most of which are people that love calling out people in echo chambers.

Circlejerks. Circlejerks everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That was pretty much exactly the case here, afaict.

[–] killeronthecorner 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ad hominem attacks generally result in bans in most communities from what I've seen. This is the way it should be.

[–] themeatbridge 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

That's not an ad hominem, though. If someone says something, and you dismiss it and call them a liar, thats an ad hominem. If they tell a bunch of lies, and you label them a liar, that's not an ad hominem. That's accurately describing the person based on their choices.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I mean, if some lies, and I come with receipts and tell them that they're bad for doing so, I should get a ban? That doesn't seem right.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I got into an argument in the main Technology community a couple weeks or so back and while I admit that it got too heated so that both of us broke the "be excellent to each other" rule, I still feel that an immediate 3-day ban with no warning or notification (I had to check the modlog to find out why I suddenly couldn't comment there) in a group where I'd never broken the rules before was ridiculous.

Didn't help any that the mod almost immediately unbanned the other guy who had been equally unexcellent during the exchange and initially got the same ban and left mine in place..

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There are potentially 3 different groups of people that may ban you for a comment. If you break a community rule, a moderator may ban you as you would expect from reddit. However, since reports also notify the admins of the community instance and the admins of the instance of the reporter, you may end up banned by an admin if they believe you are breaking an instance rule.

The modlog is great for transparency, but lemmy should also make it clear what group has banned you and why. I haven't been banned before so I'm not sure what that process looks like currently though.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

This is my first time. I'm not even sure where to find the modlog in jebora.

And yeah, notifying me that an action has been taken against me and the reason for that action would help me understand that I've done something wrong, what it was, and how to modify my behavior.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My main account got a temp ban for 14 days, the first 3 days I just thought Lemmy is broken, again. My feed was lost, but "all" worked.

A notice or a simple warning would be nice the next time.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yup, I got a 30 day ban & still don't know why. Someone must've just gotten butthurt lol. I'm probably gonna make the same mistake again Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Simply browse to your instance, go to moderations-log search your username and you find the reason.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Yay! The whole Reddit experience, but without warning....

[–] scottywh 1 points 1 year ago

Reddit didn't typically warn people before bans either.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Often the mods are arbitrary and inconsistent. Moderation can really suck sometimes

[–] themeatbridge 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Many many years ago I modded a few small reddit subs, and it was a horrible job. You'd set up these rules, and some tween edgelord d-bag would test you to see how much they can push. Some comments deserve an insta-ban with no warning and no debate.

I don't know what happened to OP, and plenty of mods let the tiny amount of power inflate their heads past the point of reason. But I think of modding like I think of parenting. I'm not going to criticize someone else's methods, because I'm sure as shit not going to do it for them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I modded a Discord for a Gamesworkshop video game and it was like that. It really boils down to whether or no people see it as benefit or nevessary burden. I was offered the mod by devs for making some guides and took it because i knew my discomfort with weilding that power would be for the benefit of the community. I would bend over backwards to not take things personally or react but alot of edgelords still made it into an "us vs them" mentality.

I've also been permabanned from a steam game hub by power tripping mods who couldnt handle someone calmly disagreeing with them and thought they had the right to insult me and ban me for standing up for myself, then pretend like i was the one who was in the wrong for not eating their shit with a smile. (Distant Worlds 2/Slytherine Games)

It's like being in politics, you gotta find people who feel obligated to do it as a public service and not those who have any desire for power.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yes! I didn't wanna say mods suck. It is an important and often thankless job.

Just that small communities without many mods are at risk of getting a bad apple.

[–] Nacktmull 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It can happen in any lemmy.world community, even if you did absolutely nothing wrong and you wont be told anything, not even that you have been banned or why. You just suddenly can not log in any more and when the ban is over you might even find that all content you ever posted has been deleted and can not be brought back. Lemmy.world admin team urgently needs to improve their banning practice and they should really consider to start answering emails. On the other hand, did I already tell you what a great instance lemm.ee is? They also have a very nice admin team over there ...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Seriously this moderation is way worse than I expect coming from Discord communities. Moderation is handled by a team, a reason for mod action is given and recorded, appeals are possible rules are clear and constantly developing for even more clarity. Mods are seen in the community all the time and are well-liked and have a great deal of social intelligence.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Why? Because internet.

A lot of communities dedicated to politics arent dedicated to political discourse.

They mostly are enforced echo chambers. At best.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It happens on Lemmy all the time. I've been shadowbanned at least three times, all on the bigger instances.

I really, really suspect that the big Lemmy instances are being run by Reddit admins or spooks or some-such. They're moderating their instances in the exact same way Reddit did minus the profiteering. The censorship is the exact same.

Also, the fact that it's possible to shadowban people and the software itself doesn't circumvent that by auto-messaging you or putting a banner on the top of your screen when you are banned from an instance or community is reason #589238923 why Lemmy fucking sucks ass.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

It's because the most insufferable people from reddit all came over to Lemmy/kbin when they got banned for being exceptionally insufferable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really, really suspect that the big Lemmy instances are being run by Reddit admins or spooks or some-such. They’re moderating their instances in the exact same way Reddit did minus the profiteering. The censorship is the exact same.

It's just the reality of online content moderation. The good mods/admins are people who are passionate about a topic and want to provide a space for discussion and community building. When it comes to the "power mods" or whatever, like those we saw on reddit who moderated 100+ subs, they're just in it to stroke their own egos.

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[–] Filthmontane 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm a real debate lord and it really annoys me when the person I'm being bickering with gets banned. Ruins all the fun.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That is why you have to message them being like "Hey idiot you got banned, anyway let me finish explaining why you're an idiot"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Some improvements I'd like to see, but maybe I'm missing something and could be a bad idea

  • The submitter gets notified if an action is taken on content they've submitted or on their account.
  • Define rules with a tally of how many times a user breaks each of them, with well-defined consequences that can be programmed.
  • The addition of polls
  • Restrict polls to users already subscribed to the community at the time of the poll creation, or with a minimum of xx days subscribed and/or xx amount of submissions, upvotes, etc
  • Have the rules voted by the community, and moderators elected/impeached by its community.
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I implement the first two and the last rules in all the communities I moderate. Everyone gets either a message or a comment if they break the rules/I remove their comment/I give them a warning. I also reply to the vast majority of mod reports made, explaining what action I’ve taken and why. All my communities have a one-warning-then-you’re-banned rule, but bans are rarely permanent.

I repeatedly state that I’m looking for moderators, that I welcome all constructive feedback and suggestions regarding the way the community is run and what the rules are. I make it clear I want the communities to be a community effort. I’ve never ever vetoed a suggestion someone’s made - I always offer to let the community decide. What happens? People complaining/criticising but never taking me up on the offer to hold a vote on whatever it is they don’t like. It’s like shouting in the wind and it’s exhausting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have the rules voted by the community, and moderators elected/impeached by its community.

lol so you want to increase the amount of work mods do and then vote them out when they do shit you don't like.

here's an idea: become a mod yourself. do the unpaid work of cleaning up the trash so other people can whine in entitled posts like this about how all the mods are trash. jfc

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

spoiler: am mod, and apparently asking for fairness and clear rules agreed by the community is being entitled now

then vote them out when they do shit you don’t like.

no, it's vote them out when they do shit the majority of active members of the community don't like.

Yes, it's unpaid, doesn't mean you're entitled to the community itself.

[–] Custoslibera 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I maintain that mods aren’t required.

If you give the community the ability to remove/hide posts once a certain threshold is met the community can self moderate.

This is literally how society works. We self govern all the time by not cutting in line or smacking people in the face for no reason.

[–] unreasonabro 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

but then who do we give the power to take people's online identities away to? such a valuable contribution to society

[–] oiez 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't get a ban, but definitely had a post "disappeared" with no explanation because I had the audacity to mention the extreme anti-Israel bias around here.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

That's one of the real problems I see so often, moderators feel strongly their side is right therefore anyone on the other side MUST be a bad actor and therefore it's good to get rid of them using any means necessary - I've seen the same happen with people arguing against just stop oil and various other similar things - in the mods minds they're just getting rid of bad faith posters and evil agents but in reality they're silencing anyone who disagrees.

[–] spacesweedkid27 1 points 1 year ago

That's why and how I got banned from NCD and stomped on multiple times in shitposting

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I've been shadow-banned from a few subreddits when I was still on the site.

Not. One. Warning.

on r/images or r/gifs or something, I 'and my ax'ed on some random thread. Banned. Thread context? All deleted. No warning, no explanation, and when I asked for feedback I got something like "the ban holds" or something.

Honestly, I'm a dick a lot of the time, but I simply can't reconcile a ban for "and my ax". Ban me for the actual stuff I do, sure. A warning would be excellent. But that one bugs me the most as I can't learn from it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Does Lemmy need political news? This is big shit and news like this is usually just upsetting.

[–] Icaria 1 points 1 year ago

Public warnings are bullshit, anyway. They post a reply, warning you for saying something you didn't say, often /u/ mentioning you, then delete the original comment to cover their tracks.

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