Before the pitchforks get handed out we should take a moment to remember that Poland has given more aid to Ukraine as a % of GDP than almost any other country. The only countries who have done more are Latvia and Estonia.
this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
113 points (96.7% liked)
Europe
8324 readers
1 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out [email protected]
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Yeah, it’s obvious this is about the grain (or)deal. It’s so unnerving of Ukraine to pull this shit tbf, and kinda dumb too since it’s quite obvious that pissing off people who are giving you resources isn’t very smart - to say the least
The grain "ordeal" prhoibits Ukraine from selling its grain. One of the most important exports and remaining bits of the economy. So while Putin is trying to stab them militarily, these countries are trying to hang them economically.
How is it Ukraine pulling shit and what are their alternatives? They can't sell grain to Europe, they can't sell grain overseas because of the Russian blockade.
The polish government does not care for Ukraine. The support was beneficial to harvest the strong (and justified) anti Russian sentiment. Now that things are going into the long run and the elections are up, they fuck Ukraine over so they get the domestic farmers vote and present it as standing up. Standing up to whom? The country already fighting off an invasion and barely getting by?
I bet, when the war is over Poland will demand to get "payed back" by Ukraine with a very high interest rate and try to ensure itself access to key economies and making Ukraine its bitch. Maybe the polish people care, but the polish government is only in for itself. Same goes for Slovakia and Hungary.
https://www.dw.com/en/ukrainian-grain-why-are-eastern-eu-members-banning-imports/a-66872238
This alongside most eastern members, so it clearly is more than just a "next election" move; surely that plays a part, as always, but the problem is objective and is there.
Ukraine economy is guaranteed by both EU and US, so they don't need to trade their grain in Europe.
From the article:
On Wednesday, Zelenskiy used his speech to the UN general assembly to accuse the countries of hypocrisy and acting in Russia’s interests. “It’s alarming to see how some in Europe play out solidarity in a political theatre – making a thriller from the grain,” he said. “They may seem to play their own role but in fact they are helping set the stage to a Moscow actor.”
Accusing people that have been handing out resources to your country to be Moscow's shill is gaslighting and, frankly, pathetic.
Before the war Agriculture made up 12.2 % of Ukraines GDP. With the widespread destruction by Russia, it is probably up to something around 40%. From the 68 Billion $ export in 2021, 23 Billion were Agricultural goods. Now with the widespread destruction of the Ukrainian industry, Agricultural products make up probably more like 80% of the export.
This grain ban is tying the noose around the neck of Ukraine. Also the argument is interesting. Ukraine argues, that it needs to pass its products through Poland and the other countries to sell it on the world market. But in Poland and the other countries some of it gets diverted to be sold on the local market. So who is doing the diversion? The Ukrainians, or some local company seeking a quick profit?
Poland and the others could easily prevent the diversion of Ukrainian grain. Well they could if they werent corrupted to the core (Poland and Hungary).
Orban has been chilling for Putin and China quite extensively, but the PiS government doesnt care, because they align on reactionary social policies and corruption with Orbans Fidesz party. The criticism by Zelensky is justified, both from the fact that what remains of Ukraines economy is getting strangled, as well as the fact that this is benefiting Moscow and at least Orban wanting exactly that.
This gives me a bit more faith in the Norwegian government, I knew we were sending a bit, but we're almost best in class by gdp :D
If the darker blue is total aid, why is it smaller than the "refugee costs only" bar? Or is the whole bar "total costs" and the darker blue bar is all aid aside from refugee costs?
So after giving all old machines to kyiv and getting them replaced with shiney new weapons they suddenly have nothing to give? Or is that take to simple?
I think it's more a political argumentation with the EU about a grain deal thing where some Ukrainian crops can not be sold in neighboring countries within the EU because they're too cheap and would put eg. Polish farmers out of business.
The deal was supposed to last only a few months but was extended and now Poland wants to at least extend it further if not make it permanent (until situation allows its removal).
I am not knowledgeable, I simply connected the two news stories.
Poland has been a raging cunt towards their neighbours for over 500 years. Funny to see that they pick right up where they left off after they finally pulled themselves together again.
Poland has been a raging cunt towards their neighbours for over 500 years.
You could replace Poland in that sentence with almost every other European nation (ignoring issues of predecessor nations not having the exact same borders of course).
Yeah, with the difference that everyone else chilled the fuck out by now. With exception of Perfidious Albion and maybe the Swamp Germans. Poland not so much, their drift into ultra nationalistic hate doesn't slow down, it speeds up and gets worse every year. The more money they get, the more of it they use to sabotage the EU.
Most of the other countries in Europe seem to be moving to the political right again too right now. Though you might have a point that Poland stayed conservative and nationalist in the last few decades while others changed.
Yeah, kind of. PiS isn't a new development, but they get extremer and extremer as time goes by just as their political allies get more facist. It's like Poland started out with 500 nationalism with everyone else at 100, and now they're bordering 1000 with everyone else pulling up to 300. Well, Italy is at 700. Germany's NSDAP2.0 might boost them up there somewhere as well with the next election or the one after that. Fun time all around. Can't wait for all the facists to start arguing land borders.
Not really, my country's neighbours are certainly not perfect but I would never categorise them as raging cunts. In fact they have been fairly decent.
Maybe not now but 500 years of European history has a lot of bad things.
I’m not one to defend Poland in its current state, or whitewash it’s checkered history especially with regard to how it treated Ukraine, but…
Poland didn’t even exist for 125+ of those 500 years, as it was completely erased off the map by the Hapsburgs, Russians, and Prussians. Its neighbours have always treated Poland as a playground for proxy wars and political intrigue, and both Russians and Germans think of the Polish as yokels or shit disturbers, worthy only of subjugation or exploitation.
In other words, it’s not hard to see why Poland quickly turned into an anxiety-ridden bully. Like an abused kid grown up into a shitty adult.
I'm not talking about 1500-2000, more like 1300-1800. It was only after their neighbours finally ereased it off the map that it became a playground. Remember that Thirty Years War? Fucking hell, the trauma of that can still be detected in the DNA of the people of those regions. But details aside, in general we agree and that it is a problem. I said it earlier and I'll say it again, polish facism is the bigger future threat that's growing in the shadow of Russias current threat.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki on Wednesday said his country would no longer arm Ukraine and will instead focus on its own defense.
His comments were made in response to a question from a reporter on whether Warsaw would continue to support Kyiv despite the disagreement over food exports.
Earlier on Wednesday, Poland said it had summoned Kyiv's ambassador over remarks by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to the United Nations General Assembly.
It was the first NATO member to pledge fighter jets to Ukraine in March this year and started to make deliveries in early April.
Tensions between Warsaw and Kyiv have intensified in recent days over Poland's ban on Ukrainian grain imports to protect the interests of its farmers.
However, the European Commission last week said it was ending the import ban, claiming that "the market distortions in the five member states bordering Ukraine have disappeared."
The original article contains 404 words, the summary contains 143 words. Saved 65%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
“Zelenskyy said some nations feigned solidarity with Ukraine” - that also was not smart.
“Zelenskyy said some nations feigned solidarity with Ukraine” - that also was not smart.