I think they shouldn't be there in the first place - what is education for? Why are we doing assessments at the education level if they aren't actually valued or indicative of job performance?
this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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I've helped with hiring before, and I've never needed to do an assessment to gauge whether someone was right for the job. Within about 10 minutes of conversation, it's pretty easy to tell where they're at.
Not everyone is 20 years old. This absolutely doesn't make sense if you're hiring a 50 year old person who has been working for 30 years; their college grades are completely irrelevant at that point.
Right, but if someone has been working for 30 years consistently do you really still need to assess them? Does an interview not suffice?
Depends on the role I think. Also, this is very relevant for people who have been working for just 5 years. 5 years in a job you can learn just as much practical knowledge as 5 years in college... or not.
Nobody is hiring 50 year olds. They are getting rid of 50 year olds and replacing them with 20 year olds
EUTHANIZE THE ELDERLY
Some people make it through school (even higher education) and are dumber than bricks
Right, and some dumb people get jobs, sure. However, if the grades they get from school aren't showing their knowledge instead of ignoring the qualification we should be working on improving it so it does.
I'm a fan of a conversational test, maybe 30 minutes of feeling out the candidate, while seeing how they work out problem solving. But that's just normal interview stuff.
At that point it sounds like a normal interview lol, which is good, that's all that should be needed
Absolutely agreed. However, hiring managers need to deal with the employees on the market today. Should we simply stop hiring until the educational problems are solved? Could be a while.
Of course not, but also an assessment for each and every employer isn't the way
I agree, see my other reply on this post. Assessments ARE sometimes necessary, however. In my field, we get a lot of self-taught software developers. I've had times where I think the candidate can do the job but can't quite put a pin in it - but the team needs a warm seat. That's when I pull out something stupid like FizzBuzz or a palindrome detector and ask them to pair program it with me, in the time span of the interview. If I have a choice, nobody will ever see a take-home assessment from me. I hated them when I was a junior, what kind of person would I be if I handed them out?
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@SensualSass zI couldn't sexually agree more. It's ridiculous to take quizzes. Like, I have my diploma from graduating first grade biotch. Get out my face with those non-sensual requirements. 💯💫💥
Anything past a half hour interview should be billable hours. Fight me.
The first half hour shouldn't be free either.
I got them eliminated for two of the positions that report to me (the only two that had them).
Yeah, you need to know how basic accounting works, but that's going to be obvious from your CV; you don't have to prove it again.
I do get that in some industries, especially highly technical ones, you might need some evidence of how they problem solve. But if ask people to do something at home, you should pay them for it.
What assessments? Why are they necessary? How many candidates are asked to take the assessments?
Normal interview processes shouldn't require any assessment beyond a resume review and standard interview.
Speaking as both a software developer and a sometime hiring manager or hiring consultant: Yes absolutely.
As a developer, if you give me something to " take home ", I expect to be paid an hourly rate for it. It doesn't really matter if the work is going to be used thereafter or if it's throw away. The employer gets valuable information, and I've spent time focused on their project to the exclusion of all else.
As a hiring manager or consultant, if I can't get a handle on your skill set sufficient to justify the risk of a 90-day trial relationship (pretty common in the state I live in, here in the United States) within a one hour conversation, then I've done something wrong. Interviews I've led or otherwise been a part of don't tend to last more than 15 or 20 minutes unless we really hit it off and start talking about 3d printing or something.
Note that everything I'm talking about refers to technical interviews. I don't do the HR stuff.
How about interviews? Been almost a year laid off and had 5-7 interviews with dozens of companies for jobs paying between $80,000-120,000. Pretty fucking stupid and hiring managers must get paid by the interview.
I am comfortable with reasonable interview lengths where I gain something. I learn lots from most interviews and I always get practice. That gives me value. Take home problems that don’t interest me? Won’t do it unless I’m paid because it’s suddenly one-sided. I gain value from conversations. Drug tests? I’ve been able to aim my pee since toddler years so I gain nothing of value there. Other things that do not involve a conversation between me and someone meaningful at the company I work at? No. Pay me.
This attitude has cost me a few job opportunities for sure. It’s also gotten me out of a few things here and there for jobs I got. And for the right opportunity I’ll bend things a bit.
Hospital is paying for my A+ and Network+ certifications. Hell, they wouldn’t even let me take one without the other. They’re set up to directly pay the people that do the teaching and exam fees for half a dozen other Comptia certifications, and are able to reimburse us for certifications that aren’t listed yet. Do I want to go get Azure certs? Yes, and I’ve had it confirmed they’ve reimbursed for it before and will reimburse for it again.
So I’m going to be here for awhile, probably.
I did a 2 day long "bootcamp" for the company I now work at. Basically two days working directly alongside my future colleagues but on a non-product related exercise task. I really appreciated it. First day was still weird and I was nervous, but on the second day it already felt normal and all conversations were extremely relaxed.
I got involved in the daily team routine, took part in coffee talks, etc
Doing the actual task was just time filler for getting a feeling of the new workplace and for them to see if I fit in.
Especially thanks to the second day I knew I loved it there and that switching job will be the right move.
This was before Covid, though. Today this probably wouldn't work anymore, with most people working from home and most meetings being remote anyway.
What I am saying is: it's not just for the company that hires you, it's also for yourself. Expecially if you have to quit another job first.