Important for what? Are oranges better than pumpkins?
this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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maybe intentions behind the action rather than the perception of the action itself.
An extreme example would be in the latest episode of My Adventures with Superman (great show, slight spoilers), Superman saves an invisible man from getting hit from a truck by stopping the truck and causing a traffic accident.
The intention was to save a guy, the perception of the people was that he caused an accident for no reason (because the guy he saved was invisible).
Right, gotcha. I thought OP meant as personal traits, which didn't make sense as I don't see how someone's abilities or skills to perceive the world can be compared to what they want to do.
To answer, in your case, I'd say intention is more important
The fact that you misinterpreted what OP meant leans toward perception though.
I also found the misunderstanding funny in context, however note there was a productive conversation out of it in which I managed to understand their intention.
If intention had no importance I don't think I would have bothered.
Yes, this is what I meant.
oh, it says in the sidebar the question has to be open ended so I didn't think I could explain it further? I also kind of assumed it had to fit in the title only.
But I meant socially. I often see rhetoric stating that its more important how people perceive what you're saying, as opposed to how you intended to have it sound.
The person who responded to you gave a great example too.
Ohh a totally different spin then, thoughts are not the same as actions. For me intention wins, however it falls flat it nobody can understand you. So I can see why the counterargument has weight.
Yeah, how I often see it described is that, even if you didn't intend for something to sound bad - if someone else perceives it as bad, then you just messed up.
I've seen this in a few different places online and it made me think but then I was at work and saw it mentioned in an anti-sexual harassment training video. That kind of made me realize this is like, the new ideology being pushed. At least where I am anyway.
I agree with you, I think it's dangerously stupid to push that idea if you don't also make an emphasis on trying to understand the other person. Empathy goes both ways, saying perception is the only thing that matters sounds like a cheap and selfish way to avoid a real conversation.
It's like when people don't speak your language and accuse you of insulting them even though they have no idea - and worse yet no intention on their part- of ever finding out what you were saying.
Empathy goes both ways, saying perception is the only thing that matters sounds like a cheap and selfish way to avoid a real conversation
Yes! It seemed very one sided to me. Especially after seeing it in a training video, where I get it and it made sense but I couldn't help but think, doesn't this mean someone can just misinterpret something and then run wild with that because that's how they perceived it?
That does happen too... I guess it boils down to the common sense of those involved, more reasonable people would work out their differences whilst unbalanced ones not so much.
You also have the extra complexity legal loopholes and cultural differences in a work environment so I can understand why a company would be pushing for interpretation/perception more than intention.
In such a scenario perception is important.
If I say something that makes you sad, it doesn’t matter that I didn’t mean to make you sad, I still hurt you.
It does matter though. I'd much rather hang with someone who unintentionally said something that hurt my feelings than one who intended to do so. Even if their behaviour is perceived as being good but on the inside they're full of shit then I still want nothing to do with them - I probably just don't know.
Yeah see I don't think either is unimportant or more important than another.
I've had people like you describe in my life, it's not fun to find out that people you thought you get along really well with actually can't stand you. Conversely, I also don't want anyone in my life that treats me like crap even though they don't intend to do so. Obviously there's a nuance, if someone says something off to me once, or does something that hurts me once that's something you can work through.
I've friends that are chronically bad at keeping times, and frequently turn up late when we plan things. I stop hanging out with them because when we talk about it and I express that keeping time is something I find very important, and they keep being late over and over again despite saying that they'll do better, I feel like my time and feelings on the matter are unimportant to them. They might not intend to waste 5 hours of my time every time we make plans, but eventually I'm bound to get fed up, no?
Well yeah obviously both are important. Ideally you have good intentions which leads one to act in a way that is perceived as good too.
However my point is that intentions is what tells more about what you're like as a person. An autist may be socially akward and they might act in a way an asshole would too but if you know they don't intend to treat you badly then you also wont judge them the same as someone who does it with the purpose to hurt you. You might still not want to be with them because it's emotionally taxing but you shouldn't think of them as an evil person.
If a someone bumps into you on the street by accident and you spill your coffee the end result is exactly the same as when someone does that intentionally but the intentions matter here a lot.
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Honestly, intent. The issue is that another person's intent can't ever truly be known. All you have is your perception of their intent.
But I weigh my perception of someone's intent more than I weigh their outcomes
My immediate thought when I read the post title was of the old subreddit, r/thedonald. The intent was to be a place to sarcastically post "pro Trump" memes to make fun of him and his supporters. The outcome was that it was removed by reddit for being filled with Nazis and hate speech when actual Trump supporters just took over, flooded it with hate and racism.
I don't think one can ever really actually know intent, really, but knowing what a person states as their intent can be interesting. I just don't think it actually matters very much. Outcomes are what actually change things and affect other people.
It's an art not to be judgmental. I always try to see beyond the reception, and give people the benefit of doubt. My reasoning is that most people inherently wants to do good, but sometimes makes mistakes or misjudge the situation. .
I think intention is more important, but perception of your intentions can have just as drastic consequences.
And of course just because you have good intentions doesn't mean you're doing the right thing.
The question is flawed.
When dealing with others, there is only perception. Even if I really try to understand their intention and they really try to communicate their intention, all I will ever have is my perception based on my understanding of what they tried to convey.
Only you know what your true intention is, perception is how the world sees you.
Perception is subjective, intention less so, intention takes priority for me
totally agree that perception is subjective.
Sounds like we're talking about a speech act.
If the question is intention vs. perception, intention all the way. Perception of a speech act should track the intent of the speaker, otherwise the perception has failed.
There are of course ways a person can make their intention clearer, particularly by following rules/norms of communication, and a person receiving or processing that communication should also utilize understanding of those rules to interpret (to properly perceive) the information.
But if both parties are doing their level best to clearly encode and decode the information, but the perceived message varies from the intended one, which one is closer to the truth? Intention. And over the long term truth wins out.
With this argument it puts the burden of understanding on the listener. That's like saying it's little kids fault for not understanding the teacher.
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Intention tells everything about you and perception tells basically nothing
How do you arrive at someone’s intention other than by perception?
I answered this question below:
It shouldn’t matter. Even if you don’t know why someone does something there’s still an intention behind that behaviour and it matters.
Ofcourse that doesn’t mean you’re going to be fine as long as your intentions are pure even if your actions are perceived to be malicious because you might suffer the consequences from the misunderstanding but you’re still not a bad person.
The reverse of this would be a high functioning charming psychopath that’s great at manipulating people and is well liked but his intentions are to take advantage of you so they’re a truly bad person despite not being perceived as such
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Better if you can achieve consistency in both.
What’s your context? Is this a theological question? A legal question? A political question?
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Perception.
All we can go on really is how we perceive others actions (or what they say) and the intent that we can gather from what they do (or say).
And all of this runs through our filters of past experience and what we've perceived others intents to be in relation to the things they've done (or said).
For example: I'm really quick to pick up on people using emotionally abusive/manipulative language or acting in abusive/manipulative ways, this is because I've (unfortunately) had so much experience with abusive/manipulative people. I've spotted it incredibly early in relationships, not only my own but the relationships of others. People don't like getting called out on it, and people really don't like it getting called out when they don't see it in their friends or partners.
"They're not like that with me."
"They're only like this sometimes."
"Well I did kinda deserve it."
I call it out when I see it, because abusive and manipulative behavior left unchecked will only fester.
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Perception. Everyone knows what they think they heard you say. Very few people are privy to why you said it. The perception of what you did has a far greater reach than the intention, and is therefore the more important thing to control. This was as true in antiquity history as it is today -- although the Internet certainly amplifies this effect.
Did Nero really fiddle while Rome burned? Did Marie Antoinette really say "Let them eat cake"? All that matters is public perception.
Machiavelli covers a lot of things like this very well, I feel he's unfairly maligned -- most of The Prince is ethically-neutral and practical leadership advice.
The most important things in life always have some element of intent.
Take marriage for example. It’s the most important decision of your life, you’re choosing who would amount as a co-proxy with you. Are you really going to let perception have power over validation? Imagine living in a culture that doesn’t allow interracial marriage and you’re discovered to be living with someone of another race. Would you accept society’s rejection of the notion you enjoy their company?
Take last wills and testaments as another example. Imagine dying, giving your last commands while on your deathbed, and some kid in the family is like “I’m going to run this by the whole neighborhood”.
Or I’ll put it another way: if perception is good, there wouldn’t be so many people here who say they dislike/denounce Wikipedia in arguments like this since Wikipedia is built on unspecific mass perception.
Holy fuck that's one hell of a comment section. I've seen my fair share of tankies but that's insane.
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Without some context that's kind of difficult to answer.
I often see rhetoric stating that its more important how people perceive what you’re saying, as opposed to how you intended to have it sound.
I wonder how I could edit my question to make this more clear? Where I live this is a common concept. But for other people maybe not. I've done a great job of confusing everyone so far.
If you're on PC I think you should be able to click the 3 vertical dots below the post title and edit the description.
On topic, IMO there is nuance in the answer to your question.
When perception and intention are 'positive', perception is more important. When perception and intention are 'negative', intention is a deal breaker.
oh whoops, I meant like how could I better phrase the question to make it make more sense.
I agree with you about the nuance part. That's a very important part of communication too, I think, just being able to understand the nuance in things like this.
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