this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2025
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[–] frazw 55 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

I'm glad Europe is backing him.

It was hugely ironic that Trump and Vance sat and told Zelensky how things are based on what they've watched on TV, cutting off his attempts to correct them and then called him disrespectful.

It had the feeling of a pupil reporting to the headmasters office for punishment for fighting back against a bully. The headmaster didn't need to hear his side of the story because violence is not the answer.

I'm conscious that an analogy like this can appear insensitive and diminish the whole thing. Especially as Zelensky tried to say several times. "I'm not playing cards" when Trump made analogies about "you don't have the cards right now."

[–] [email protected] 46 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

The key to understanding what’s happening right now is (imo):

  • Trump has a deep admiration for dictators, going back decades. This is well documented. Putin is a role model for the way he wants to govern (and see himself, actually).

  • Zelensky not complying with Trumps extortion to find dirt on Hunter Biden led to his first impeachment. Trump is seeking revenge for that. In fact he said publicly that he would seek revenge on all the people that wronged him (in his mind at least). He is out to punish his enemies and Zelensky is high on that list.

Europe needs to realize that in the span of little over one month, the US turned from its most important ally to a hostile nation - and potentially an enemy.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

There's compelling evidence out there that Trump is an actual recruited Russian agent

[–] grue 5 points 2 days ago

Fanboi or agent, the result is the same.

(Personally, I think he's both: an agent that's so thoroughly snookered that he doesn't even realize it, who is betraying America willingly in hopes senpai Putin will notice him.)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

We really need some good proper follow-up on that. Some hard proof but it's really unsurprising if it's true.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A lot of us in Europe are aware!

[–] SlopppyEngineer 8 points 2 days ago

A lot were still in denial, figuring there was still a way to reason this out, until this meeting.

[–] notsoshaihulud 1 points 2 days ago

It was hugely ironic that Trump and Vance sat and told Zelensky how things are based on what they’ve watched on TV, cutting off his attempts to correct them and then called him disrespectful.

To me the more surprising thing was that trimp is clueless and classless, but TBH I expected Vance to give us much more sophisticated theater. It was pretty lame and transparent.

[–] random_character_a 2 points 2 days ago

For Trump Zelensky was there to kiss the ring and be humiliated in light mental BDSM session to please Trumps kingly ego.

I don't think Zelensky was planning to sign anything, but was still there with a hope.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm convinced these events will permanently change the role of the US in the world. I checked all of Germany's major newspapers (progressive and conservative) and they all agree that Europe can't rely on the US anymore and will have to fend for itself and/or find new partners. I don't doubt it's the same in other major European countries. This might well be the start of the end of US hegemony. I sure hope that whatever new world order we move into isn't worse than the one we had, and that the changes go over without additional war.

[–] dlatch 10 points 2 days ago

We're witnessing the collapse of the "American empire" similar to how the Roman empire or any other historical world power collapsed. These events will be in the history books for centuries to come.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Can somebody explain something to me?

  • Trump was trying to position himself as a peace broker between Ukraine and Russia. He wasn't aligned with either side. He was "aligned with the world" in the pursuit of peace.
  • So what's the purpose of the minerals deal? Ukraine give the mining rights to the US and in return the US... does what? Act as a peace broker?

As soon as Trump distanced the US from Ukraine in that press gaggle, there was no reason for Zelensky to sign anything. If he was trading for US support then sure, but not for the US to be a neutral 3rd party.

[–] kautau 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Trump is a Russian asset. The point of the deal was to fall apart but allow Trump to save face and say “well you know I tried to offer him help but he refused it” and his followers will lap it up. 90% of them won’t watch any of meeting between he and Zelensky. And the 10% that do will only see a carefully curated cut on Fox new, Facebook, Twitter, or truth social.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

That and basic mob racketeering

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In return US does nothing, that was the whole point of the deal. It was simple extortion scheme it didn't pan out so trump acted as if Zelensky ate his dog.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Even when you're being extorted you have a reason to pay the money. "Pay or people die", but all Trump is saying is "Pay".

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

Time for European countries to start canceling F35 contracts. That'll get some attention.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago

Let’s hope we can do more than tweets.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Putin is aiming to have sanctions put in place since 2014 lifted. He wants to be a global superpower again.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

MEGA - Make Europe Great Again! Start now!

[–] revolutionaryvole 26 points 2 days ago

Let's not copy that fascist slogan, please.

Europe does not need to become 'great' for its own sake, it needs to become a holdfast for peace, democracy and international cooperation in a world where the biggest superpower is sliding towards nationalist autocracy.

There's absolutely no sense stoking jingoism on our side only to end up with our own Trump 10 years down the road.