EU needs to just say fuck it at this point and give the ultimatum that unless they and Ukraine are included with the talks, they are sending troops into Ukraine. The Polish have been itching to kill Russians for decades and to be honest, 80% of the EU has well. When that first underwater cable was cut, it should have been game on.
this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2025
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US is not an ally of the west.
Or the east, or the north, or the south
Seems like they are getting close and closer to admitting to the love affair they have with Russia and getting married.
Trump is definitely Putin's bitch
They are a Russian ally, so that is not quite correct.
They never have been.
I hate that our leaders are wannabe Imperialist swine.
The rest of NATO needs to call Trump's bluff and just start acting without the US. Hold a vote to induct Ukraine into NATO without giving the US a chance to vote on it and then deploy NATO troops into Ukraine. Russia has already been claiming that there are NATO troops there for a while now, should show him what an actual NATO defense looks like instead of a bunch of desperate Ukrainians with hand me down surplus weaponry.
since russia has claimed there are nato troops in ukraine, what is actually preventing nato from sending the troops? Russia is going to invade eu anyway after awhile when kremlin feels more secure about it. By lying, didnt they blow their ultimatum regarding nato intervention too?
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Honest question to someone who is a legit expert on … international treaties? geopolitics?
How the fuck can an uninvolved and uninvited country declare itself a party to negotiations for peace? Does anyone even think the US is authorized to offer concessions on behalf of an absent nation? Isn’t this entire disgusting spectacle unenforceable?
There's no such thing as "authorization". The US can make whatever deals it likes, it doesn't mean Ukraine has to listen. There's no such thing as "international enforcement" in the first place, just individual nations flexing power on other nations.
US weapons are important to Ukraine, so the US could flex that power and try to make Ukraine do what it says by withholding them, but if they think they can go it alone or Europe steps up, they don't need to listen.
Isn’t this entire disgusting spectacle unenforceable?
Yes, but Trump is far too stupid to realize that.
Yes, it's completely unenforceable.
However, Ukraine depends on US aid and if they reject the deal they'll have to keep fighting without it.
So they're fucked either way.
The main thing I got from this is that Saudi Arabia doesn't respect an international arrest warrant on Putin.
Trump and Putin can talk all they want, without Ukraine it means nothing.
Saudi Arabia isn't an ICC member state, though, so they don't have to comply with the warrant (probably part of why they picked Saudi Arabia).
If they want Europe to enforce the peace in Ukraine, a 'deal' without Europe is meaningless as well (you'd hope, anyway. Otherwise the European establishment would agree with America treating Europe like their bitch).
Wtf are we even doing there? Even if we're trying to sell out Ukraine, I don't see much happening without Ukraine at the table. The motivators are going to be sticks and carrots. The best carrot I can see the US getting Ukraine is peace or ceasefire alongside the cessation of some of their land. But that ignores that Russia broached peace agreements twice in this mess. So it's not possible to trust anything Russia offers (kudos on that 4D chess, Putin, you pathetic slobdog).
That leaves leaning on the rest of Europe and continuing the resistance as the only viable option. Unless we give them sticks, which would be insane and fully exile the US as a pariah state from the rest of the free world. It would kill trade and drop us into an instant depression. Which they might think they're fine with, but that's quite a shortcut to the guillotine.
The billionaire class are all done with us. They have their private bunkers with hired goons to protect them, and WANT a depression. Chaos, millions killed, bird flu unleashed, all that and more they want so they can carve out kingdoms from the ruined democracies they are targeting. That's what they want, and Putin is more than happy to help them do it
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