this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2025
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.

I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?

The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.

My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".

I would have to unlearn all of that.

Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago

Helix because it's easy to setup and hassle free, and it runs well on my 2009 ASUS Eee

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

vscodium and neovim extension

[–] spacemanspiffy 8 points 6 hours ago

Neovim genuinely makes me happy. I love it to bits.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago

vscodium. Easy to use for beginners (i'm a beginner too), fully open-source, all microsoft tracking binaries removed. Aviable for Windows, Linux, macOS, darwin, propably bsd, or even as a webview, and supports a lot of architectures. Great for intrepeted languages, but supports compiled ones too

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I left a comment before but I thought I'd address the concerns around modal editing. It's not as hard as it seems, once you wrap your head around hjkl you'll be fine.

Use Lazyvim to get started and install the vim plugin in vscode. Try it qutebrowser too you won't look back honestly.

Consider helix too, it works out of the box but the keys are slightly different to Vim which makes it challenging for me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

I've tried helix and used it for work today. At first, it was super slow, relearning how to jump between buffers, but at the end of the day, i got decent at it.

But I cannot hjkl. It's just unnatural. The moment I stop thinking about it, my hand is back at arrow keys.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

I use VSCodium atm.

[–] MITM0 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

I use Lapce, which could be a great native alternative to VS-Code (Also it's built with Rust, this is for the Rustaceans)

There was a time where I used Geany as well, I still like it

[–] [email protected] 4 points 14 hours ago

I use emacs when on my personal machines. VS Code at work.

The fastest tool is the one you are best at using. I find that my tool doesn't make me fast, my ability to solve issues makes me fast. I very rarely learn a new tool unless it accomplishes something for me my other tools do not.

For example, at work I use windows and regularly ssh to servers. My entire job is spent ssh'd into other servers. Emacs terminal emulator is spotty at best when using ssh on windows. There are ways to make it work, but some modifications get flagged by our SEIMs. So in that case I use vs code, and the ssh remote connection options and split terminal interface.

At home I use emacs. I have all Linux machines so my terminal plays nicely. I also am working on reducing my RSI from years of tech work. The less mousing I have to do, the better. Emacs allows me to keep my hands on my keyboard.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Neovim, Emacs, Helix and VSCode.

Zed has been fun.

VsCode and Pycharm are just too slow for me. You need a very fast machine with a lot of RAM.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago

Did you mean Visual Studio the second time?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

I started with neovim because I hate my laptop's mousepad, and that's often pushed as a benefit of modal editors, not needing the mouse. After I used it for a while I found that not only could you do stuff easily that would be difficult in, say vs code, but it was also pretty fun. It's honestly a bit of a power trip sometimes, makes me feel like a 90s tv hacker. Also plugins. So many neat plugins.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

i really wonder why mousepads sucks

[–] [email protected] 16 points 21 hours ago

I hate to be that guy but (neo)vim has served me well for too long. I don't even use any crazy maps or plugins; it's just comfy.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 19 hours ago

I swapped to neovim 10 months ago. Haven't looked back. Actually, I've looked back a LOT for the first few weeks because I couldn't figure out how to do certain things. But the more you learn the better it becomes. Not needing your mouse is SO good.

[–] TheTimeKnife 5 points 19 hours ago

I'm still learning to code, but I tried out a bunch and I've liked using Vim, VScodium and Pycharm.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 23 hours ago

NeoVim plus tmux.

Great multi dimensional way of operating. You have access to the terminal and your ide.

It's beautiful

[–] [email protected] 1 points 13 hours ago

I used to use VSCodium, but in my quest to touch the mouse as little as possible I switched to Neovim.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 23 hours ago

The main reason I like vi/vim is that if you're having to use multiple different computers (such as if one is a sysadmin, or in my case, does scientific computing), because if you're running on Linux, you can be confident that vi/vim will be on it.

For personal use, I've been using emacs, but I can't recommend that without feeling like I'm suggesting you try some heroin. I enjoy emacs because of it's complexity and how much power it gives me to modify it. It's very easy to fall into feature creep and over complexity though. That's why I can't recommend it — it's good for me because I am a chronic tinkerer, and having something to fuck around with is an outlet for that.

I would recommend learning the basics of vim though. As you highlight, getting back to your current level of productivity would take a while, even if you loved vim and committed to it wholeheartedly. It is possible to try it out with little commitment though, for the perspective. If you're on a machine that has vim installed already, try the vimtutor command, which will start the ~30 min long inbuilt tutorial for vim. I liked it for giving me perspective on what on earth vim even was.

I know you don't use it anymore, but I just want to fistbump you re: sublime text. I really loved that as a basic text editor that was, for me, just a slightly nicer notepad.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

I use Neovim. It feels like a second nature after using it for years. I love how effortless the interaction with the editor is after you have spent hundreds of hours learning it. I have no reasonable arguments to convince anyone to do that though. I just do it because I enjoy the hell out of it 🤷‍♂️

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

Don't Speculate

Go to Twitch/YouTube. Watch a senior Vim/Jetbrains/Emacs/VS Code/Helix dev churn out code for a hackathon/advent-of-code, and see what you are (or are not!) missing out on.

If you have "how the hell did they just do that" moments, figure out what that feature is, and STEAL IT. If its too hard to steal, then maybe you are being limited by your editor. Base your "fear of missing out" on what you see rather than random people tossing their opinions around. Only you can answer "how much is that feature worth to me and my workflows?"

  • If you're going to try modal editors, sooner is exponentially better. Probably start with Vim bindings for VS Code.
  • If you're not going to go modal, then make absolutely sure you don't bottom out. To be frank, Ctrl+D is the tip of the iceberg. Half the benefit of modal editors is, mastery is mandatory; they chase you around with a 10k volt taser until you've got 100 instinctual shortcuts. Hardly anyone mentions this but Go beyond/outside your editor: At the OS level, use spacebar as a modifier key, where holding spacebar converts your WASD into arrow keys. Then disable your normal arrow keys. Something like that will get you vim-like benefits, but in every app, and with a learning bump instead of a learning mountain. For VS Code, get cursor jumper extensions like Mario (block jumper), get cursor-alignment extensions, write boatloads of custom code snippets, get a macro record+replay extension, make a jump-to-next quote, jump to next bracket, install sequential number generator extension, a case change (camel case, snake case, etc) extension, sort lines, case-preserving rename. If you can avoid bottoming out, and keep learning, you'll likely never feel that you are missing out on whatever modal editor people are swearing by.
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 20 hours ago

vscode + whatever connection plugin you need + vim plugin

[–] inzen 6 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

My editors

  • Professionally I use Jetbrains stuff (intellij, pycharm, etc).
  • At home I use Neovim because I like to have lsp support, I'm too cheap to pay for IDE's and I dislike VSCode for personal reasons. For quick edits I use default text editor e.g. kate/gedit.

My opinions on learning new editors

  • If you need to go fast now, use what you know best.
  • If you have time to learn just try whatever looks cool. Learning a new editor/way to edit text will broaden your horizons even if you don't end up using it.
[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 day ago

Do you have a minute to talk about my lord and savior VIM? Wanna see my dot files?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Not dev but I'm in IT/Cybersec mostly as it's much easier to find jobs there and I use vim just about everywhere, usually with tmux and i3 with custom vim-like keybinds (super+j move focus right etc), I use vim even on my phone in termux, with gboard.

I don't use LSPs cause CBA but I only use Python and C and maybe occasionally bash for homelab stuff and I don't have large projects (😭).

If I'm doing any ML stuff from scratch (not refining or writing API for local llm model or integrating it with another API but just building classifiers etc) for fun I use Jupyter. Such a wildly different way of coding honestly ngl it's wild, but great when you need to document what you're doing.

At uni I used to use fucking Visual Studio with C# and Netbeans with Java, but I learned it pretty well. I don't think they ever even taught us how to run code outside those 😂

At work I use gedit and gnome terminal for navigation cuz it's company time unless I'm personally interested in what I'm doing.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor.

Honestly I've yet to hear a good argument for this. It feels like such a major investment to switch to vi-like editors, I need a pretty good argument before considering it

Also a good argument for "why does it matter"? Speed of editing is rarely a bottleneck when editing code. If it is, you might want to consider why your code is so verbose and repetitive to make it so

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

In my personal experience, it’s a little faster but not a huge speed difference. However, it’s much more pleasant and ergonomic. I enjoy the act of modal editing much more than modeless.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

Modal editing for just raw text input would actually be slower, because you also enter and leave Insert Mode. I find it's very fast and powerful for navigating around the text, which you probably do a lot more than actually editing it. And when it does come to editing, there are a lot of higher-level tools (at least in Vim) for accomplishing things more quickly, like the 's' command and 'q' macros.

I think getting into a mental "flow" state is really valuable, and muscle memory is important for being able to stay there. If your muscle memory is to navigate around using the mouse, that's great, but Vim feels faster to me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Input speed is not "just" input speed.

Note: I'm not about to argue for or against modal editors, I just want to answer: why is input speed really really really important, when (we agree) its not a big percent of total time.

5min at 80mph over a bumpy dirt path is very very different than 5min of flat smooth straight driving. And not just because of effort.

A senior and junior dev could spend the same amount of time to rename a var across 15 files, move a function to a new file, comment out two blocks, comment one back in, etc. But. When I try to have a conversation while they do that, or when I change my mind and tell the junior to undo all that, its a massive emotional drain on the junior.

But effort isn't the whole picture either: speed is a big deal because pausing a conversation/mental thought for 5 seconds while you wait to finish some typing, is incredibly disruptive/jarring to the thought-process itself. That's how edge cases get forgotten, and business logic gets missed.

Slower input is not merely input time loss, it also creates time loss in the debugging/conceptualizing stages, and increases overall energy consumption.

If the input is already fast enough that there's no "pauses in the conversation" then I'd agree, there's not much benefit in increasing input speed further. BUT there's almost always some task, like converting all local vars (but not imported methods) in a project to camel case, that are big enough to choke the conversation, even for a senior dev. So there's not necessarily a "good enough" point because it's more like decreasing how often the conversation gets interrupted.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I used vi for a few years so have the muscle memory and the sole advantage in my perception was that everything is simple typing with hands remaining in the home keys position (except Escape, ironically).

So it's more relaxed if you find using modifiers onerous, but I don't find Ctrl or Alt significantly worse than Shift, and I don't find it any worthwhile advantage.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

Fresh from university I found a job with terrible keyboards. After about 4 months I started to feel constant pain in my wrists. I then switched to vim.

And it solved my wrists issue. But also, I discovered a way to edit text that was so much optimized fat beyond my expectations.

I wrote this article for people that would like to familiarize with vi keybindings.

https://yannesposito.com/Scratch/en/blog/Learn-Vim-Progressively/

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I use Jetbrains' products for all my coding needs.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 21 hours ago

Same. Jetbrains makes the best IDEs hands down IMO and I say this after 20 years of coding and using numerous IDEs. I also use vscode as a backup but as more of a glorified text editor.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

I use Helix

TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.

Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.

Compared to vs code:

  • it is much faster and more minimal
  • It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.

Compared to neovim I think it is:

  • easier to learn
  • slightly faster - especially with large files
  • you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.

The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:

Helix really shines when:

  • performance matters - I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
  • You want to use multiple cursors at times
  • You want a simple or no configuration
  • It is taking too long to learn the vim keybindings - vim keybindings are more concise but less intuitive and harder to learn

I recommend you use the tutor (hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

Thanks for the overview. I'll work with tutor and see how frustrated I get :D


Regarding language servers:

Recently, I got into this philosophy of "every project needs a declarative environment". It means that there is a committed file that should contain all tooling need to work with the project. Compilers, formatters, test runners and also: language servers.

This fights with vscode extensions which try to be clever and download their language server / bundle it into the extension itself. "No, rust-analyzer, I don't want your build because it does not work with xtensa target arch I'm using in this project".

So actually, this ties nicely with helix not providing the language servers itself, but allowing you to bring your own.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

vim with appropriate syntax highlighting, or kate

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

kate

I use Kate -- part of the KDE project ecosystem (for anyone else wondering) -- on all platforms, including Windows. So worth it.

[–] mholiv 7 points 1 day ago

+1 for Helix. Selection then action always made more sense to me than action then selection.

[–] Shanmugha 14 points 1 day ago

I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster

Please, do yourself a favor and ignore that noise. It is more a question of like/dislike and training. Personal sidenote: I daily alternate between PhpStorm and Neovim. Can't say doing things in either is faster/slower to any significant degree (PhpStorm is mostly there for the things I have not yet configered properly in Neovim, like looking through git history)

and I would like to switch to a more performant editor

This should be looked at and tested objectively: is it working with big files that is the problem? Or navigating the code base? Or something else? Maybe it is better to tweak vscode instead?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)
cat << EOF > file.txt
# [[content here]]
EOF

On a more serious note: Neovim for quick file-edits, doom-emacs as my IDE.

Doom-emacs does most of the stuff you are already using out of the box, is highly configurable and it lets you use vim-keybindings. It's also free (as in freedom) software!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago

this, evil is the real 4th generation vi

[–] bitchkat 3 points 1 day ago

Mostly emacs, vi, or what IDE I happen to be using like Eclipse.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Vscodium. Anything else (ESPECIALLY VIM, SO DON'T TELL ME TO USE VIM) makes my brain want to eject itself into the 37th dimension to look for Nirvana and the true purpose of life.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago

Hey have you tried using Vim? I like it better than Emacs

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 22 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Helix is absolutely wonderful.

Used to use Vim/Neovim, but the hassle of setting it up and maintaining huge configuration files was a pain (for me).

Also I never really got it working the way I wanted and never had LSP working for all the languages I needed.

Helix on the other hand. My config file is under 20 lines, LSP works super for all my needs. Well thought out keybindings (mostly) and overall a joy to use.

Nice features and fast.

Still a bunch of things missing, it is a rather young piece of software, but I have been using it as my only editor for the last 1 1/2 years.

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