this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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You're talking to people that want to continue rationalizing their tacit, frequently racist support for genocide, and their easiest out has always been to say, "but Trump is worse". They have never done the introspection required to look at their own personal role as a political being beyond what they're told to do by the Democratic Party and their donors: slacktivist vote shaming, always presuming the high ground for themselves (even while tolerating genocide!), and doing as little as possible on the ground outside of minor exercises in false catharsis like a cop-escorted, permitted march or an ignored letter writing campaign.

When challenged on this by people on the left that do read and do self-reflect, these are the folks that responded in bad faith, even when the context is genocide, because they have made politics into an extension of their egos rather than a project to which to subordinate yourself and devote real work to.

Whining about .ml is their way of pretending to be vindicated every time Trump does something bad, as they cannot actually argue against what the people in .ml say, they must rely on inventions and emotional implications.

In short, many on .ml vocally opposed supporting genociding Democrats. None that I'm aware of expected Trump to be better. At best, a roll of the dice.

Edit:

Sorry, folks. I failed to consider that this is the home instance of the people being target by this comment.

Just to be clear, I'm not a big .ml fan, I'm just an anarchist who's never seen this particular gripe of mine worded so nicely.

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[–] NOT_RICK 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Whining about .ml is their way of pretending to be vindicated every time Trump does something bad, as they cannot actually argue against what the people in .ml say, they must rely on inventions and emotional implications.

Uh yeah, I can’t argue against what y’all say on .ml because anything beyond the prevailing opinion will just get scrubbed away

When challenged on this by people on the left that do read and do self-reflect

lol, this is some grade A fart sniffing. Guess I’m not reading the right books

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Uh yeah, I can’t argue against what y’all say on .ml because anything beyond the prevailing opinion will just get scrubbed away

I think it's easy not to realize how profound an impact this has. I tried looking at the same comment threads, on Hexbear and then on some other instances, and it's really remarkable how distorted a picture you'll see of reality and consensus when it's being artificially manipulated to look some particular way. I was surprised by how compelling an alternate reality was created by banning everyone who disagrees.

I'm not surprised to hear someone say "you cannot actually argue against" it, because if you spend all your time in .ml spaces, you may never have heard the counterarguments or had a chance to see a sustained conversation about it. Or maybe a handful of times, with each one being met with ten angry counterpoints which meld into an overall picture of the first thing having no merit at all. I think a lot of times, they form their picture of the counterarguments based on what other .ml people say the counterarguments are. Which is usually pretty different.

When people talk about needing to "protect" their spaces against invasion from some kind of outside force which is going to comment them to death, which is tedious and "debatebro" and they don't need it, that's the outcome they are bending things towards. I have no idea if it's on purpose or just an accidental product of trying to make a friendly space for people with some particular belief. But that's the outcome. It's why they have so much trouble talking with people from "outside" and so little frame of reference as to what the people "outside" actually think and say and believe.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (36 children)

"You're talking to people that want to continue rationalizing their tacit, frequently racist support for genocide"

this is not happening, and like every single other person who cries about Democrats, I'm sure you don't have a shred of evidence either.

"their easiest out has always been to say, "but Trump is worse"."

Trump is worse.

Trump supports the Palestinian genocide explicitly.

and "always"?

how old are you, eight?

That's how long Trump has been politically relevant.

"slacktivist vote shaming"

If you didn't vote, you should be ashamed.

If you didn't vote against Trump, you are the reason Ukraine is not receiving aid, you are the reason diversity is being ruled back, you are the reason women don't have bodily autonomy.

If you didn't vote against Trump, you should be ashamed of your selfish cowardice.

.ml supports the disrespectful and illegal authorian practices that have perpetuated the Palestinian genocide.

your post is trashy trash trash and you don't have a sprig of evidence or logic behind it.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sorry, folks. I failed to consider that this is the home instance of the people being target by this comment.

"It's upsetting to me that, here, people are allowed to defend themselves or raise counterarguments. It's much more orderly in places where they can be banned for doing that, so we can talk shit about them unimpeded by anyone defending themselves against it."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not at all what I meant to say with that. I barely participate in .ml spaces, and I think the censorship there is whack. I legitimately made a mistake posting this here, is all. It's like posting something offensive to queer people on blahaj, or posting a tankie-dunk on .ml. It's just not appropriate

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hm... I mean, I'm not sure I would say that. I think it's good to be able to talk about it. You raised a common perception, and I and some other people wanted to disagree with the perception because it's offensive to us yes, and we got to talk about it. In my book, that's a good thing. It's part of how people get to understand each other.

It might sound like I'm super-irritated at points during the conversation, but I'm really not heated about it. I'm just being vocal, in part because I'm being accused of being racist and supporting genocide and then lying about it. I do think this type of conversation is a good thing. The metaphor where disagreement is "violence" and certain spaces have to be "protected" against it, or against people being harsh when they disagree, because that's hostile and awful, doesn't make sense to me. I think disagreeing and being able to clash a little bit is a good thing. Like I said, it's part of how people get to understand each other. For my side I'm very glad we had this whole conversation about it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It sounds like my edit in the post body may have come across with a sarcastic or pompous tone, but I really did mean it genuinely

I agree with you, I just didn't intend to come here to argue lol. Tbh I normally just block people with your opinion, but it is nice to have discussions like this every now and then, and have my positions challenged

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you didn't want an argument, accusing anyone opposed to Trump of being "people that want to continue rationalizing their tacit, frequently racist support for genocide," and saying they're only cloaking it in a deceptive framework of being anti-Trump, was not a strategic move 🙂.

Like I said, the fact that there are places on Lemmy where you can say shit like that and it doesn't cause an argument, says a lot more about the culture and nature of the conversations in those places than it does anything about the wider Lemmy community where you chose to post this. I do get what you mean, though. We good. It's good to talk.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

anyone opposed to Trump

Just to be extra clear, myself and OOP oppose Trump. I don't think you meant it that way, but I wanted to be clear

If you didn't want an argument, [this] was not a strategic move

Yeah that's what I'm saying, I made a mistake lol

Also, I don't think OOP was saying it's deceptive, though I might argue there's some self-deception going on under the hood. I know 'cognitive dissonance' gets thrown around a lot as a buzz word but, as a therapist, it really does look like that

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (13 children)

Roll of the dice?

Trump is worse. UNRWA is illegal, there’s no aid of any kind going in, and they’re invading the West Bank now. By the end of Trump’s term, Palestine may be no more.

This whole thing is a massive exercise in exactly what it claims to be criticizing.

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