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Virtual Reality

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What's a solid mid-tier or generally recommended VR headset? Is the Meta Quest 3 what I'm looking for? (leminal.space)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/virtualreality
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I've had issues with my Oculus Rift S for years now and it seems like the proprietary cable finally broke (I made a post about my current issue you can see here on [email protected]) so I'm thinking about making a change but I haven't really been tracking the scene in a while. That's not to say I haven't done any research but it's largely limited to LTT reviews I've had sporadically recommended to me and those don't really take into account follow ups after extended use and updates.

It seems relatively dominated by the Meta Quest 3 but I can't tell how much of that is it being the new thing. I am also quite wary of Meta after how they handled the Rift S with updates and replacement cables.

Some other considerations I have are

  • Works with my desktop PC running Windows 11 so that I can play games I have on Steam and elsewhere like Arizona Sunshine and EmuVR. As well as watch VR movies. If it can pair up with a PC running Linux that would be even better.

  • Doesn't have proprietary parts that I will likely need to replace at some point.

  • Minimal to no mounting of lighthouses and as little cables as possible.

  • Something that won't require an abundant amount of troubleshooting. The inability to just put on my Rift S headset caused it to gather dust a lot of the time.

  • I'd prefer not to buy a Meta product. I am not super set on this as long as they've been better about their more recent products.

  • Some kind of passthrough mode so that I can walk around my place and do things like wash dishes and fold laundry would be nice.

  • I'd prefer to spend $700 or less. I am not sure how often or what headsets are expected to go on sale and for how much. I feel like there are options out there for this price that would be an improvement over Rift S and original PSVR that I've used.

If the Quest 3 is my best bet is there anything I should know about it? Maybe concerns over how it would connect to a PC?

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[–] dual_sport_dork 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I will join the chorus here recommending that you absolutely do not under any circumstances buy a Meta hardware product. For your budget you will probably have to purchase used or make quite a few sacrifices to your requirements. The alternative is to buy a Quest, but those are cheap because Meta subsidizes the cost of hardware by using it to literally spy on you.

If you can stomach having external tracking towers with your setup anyway, the best avenue for compatibility is probably one of the Valve/HTC Vive models. The Vive Pro 2 is probably the most attractive price-wise, at $800 for the entire setup.

For your purposes the Focus Vision is probably more appealing, since it has inside-out tracking and does not require lighthouses/towers. If I were forced to dump my Reverb for some reason this would probably be the avenue I'd take, however I would have a hard time justifying the minimal upgrade to resolution which is already looking somewhat outdated at 2448x2448 per eye.

The Pimax Crystal Light also looks interesting, but I have no personal experience with Pimax products. It also has inside-out tracking. You can buy it outright but Pimax also does this weird combination pricing thing where they let you stretch out the payments over time if the initial cost blows your budget, which sounds fishy on the surface but they've offered that for a while and haven't been sued into the dirt yet, so it must be at least somewhat legit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The alternative is to buy a Quest, but those are cheap because Meta subsidizes the cost of hardware by using it to literally spy on you.

I feel like there have to be ways to neuter the headset in that regard between using a burner account, sideloading applications, and maybe even isolating it at a network level.

Do you know if any headsets you mentioned have any notable software or hardware issues? I'm not sure what kind of track record either company has for things like software/community support, durability, and replacement parts.

I'd like something that will last me a while and won't be turned into a paper weight by softare updates or a single niche component failing. Ideally I'd like to avoid just aimlessly scrolling through different headset's subreddits to find out.

If I'm correct the Rift S had half the resolution of the Focus Vision so I don't think that would be a major issue. I would appreciate something that was a bit more clear though. I can't recall if the Rift S had the screen door effect some headset reviews mention.

[–] dual_sport_dork 1 points 4 hours ago

I feel like there have to be ways to neuter the headset in that regard between using a burner account, sideloading applications, and maybe even isolating it at a network level.

Maybe, but I'm going to point out once again that this is a machine covered in cameras and microphones, and fully owned by Meta, which you bring into your house and wave around. Even with burner data it is trivial for Meta to determine your approximate location based on IP, and the fucking thing could very well be recording the faces of everyone around the place any time Meta felt like it.

In my opinion, even setting the bad precedent that Meta's behavior is tolerable enough to warrant a sale in the first place even if we hold our noses over it, that does not seem like an acceptable risk vs. reward situation for me personally. I believe you can use a Quest tethered without an internet connection to play games once it's set up, but it is absolutely required with a sign-in the first time you use it.

HTC/Valve's hardware support has been quite good insofar as I'm able to tell. I have no experience with Pimax in that regard.

For the record, despite being the "best" WMR platform headset the Reverb G2 I have actually has an abysmal hardware track record. HP was awful at supporting the things when they were new, they broke like crazy all the time for seemingly no reason, and now that software support is officially dropped I would not be at all surprised if they just pretended the damn things no longer existed if you asked them at this point. So as much as I like my G2, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy one now unless you really like to tinker and you can get one for next to free from eBay or something. The WMR headsets were indeed effectively paperweighted, so I sympathize with your concerns there.

It seems quite unlikely this will happen with any of the HTC headsets, especially the ones cosupported by Valve.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I'd rather go without VR and actively gouge my eyes out than buy a piece of hardware locked to Meta's ecosystem. their hardware is "ok" but their company is actively fascist.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They're selling the hardware at a loss and make up by selling data.

If don't fear to sail the high seas, you can completely lock the device out of the internet and simply sideload the games and apps from your PC.

That way you can use one of the best bang for your buck VR devices, enjoy all the games AND actively made Meta lose money

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (4 children)

A family member has headsets they aren't really using. They were having account issues (migration related?) and were worried by the wording when it comes to enabling dev mode. It even wants phone number or CC verification too.

So unless there's some way to bypass that, it's still a pain.

Funny thing I actually would like to develop for it too, though I haven't made anything close to a game.

just low-poly vertex-color stuff and tinkering in Godot

[–] dual_sport_dork 1 points 2 days ago

A-badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

just low-poly vertex-color stuff and tinkering in Godot

Very cool. Love to see stuff like that. Reminds of the console homebrew demo scene

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

I've done some really early tinkering with Godot too, I was surprised at how straightforward the VR stuff is in it.

I haven't made anything very interesting yet though. It probably needs more badgers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

I just used burner mail and phone for the Dev account and was done with it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Yeah the games from "elsewhere" I mentioned and possibly buying used were two ways I considered to A) avoid supporting Meta in any meaningful way and B) recoup some of the cost.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's more as if they're willing to be whatever is socially acceptable and most profitable. Not that that makes it much better.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you can still find them, Windows Mixed Reality headsets are a great budget option. I got mine for $250.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Don't go this route unless you plan to stay on Windows 10. Windows 11 24h2 killed my HP Reverb G2 v2 due to eol of wmr.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Last I checked my WMR headset is still working on W11 but I haven’t used it recently

[–] dual_sport_dork 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The next feature update will kill it.

On my Windows machine I am specifically running 23H2 and I have it locked to that version so it won't auto-update behind my back. It still works on 10 as well, but some of my new hardware does not have drivers that work correctly with 10 so I'm stuck with it.

Monado is promising support for WMR headsets under Linux and at the time of writing has at least partially functional support. I predict when the Win10 cutoff happens you will be able to find WMR headsets very cheap on eBay as people dump their now apparently no longer working hardware.

The Reberb G2 is probably the best of the bunch there, and is what I have.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

Monado is promising support for WMR headsets under Linux and at the time of writing has at least partially functional support. I predict when the Win10 cutoff happens you will be able to find WMR headsets very cheap on eBay as people dump their now apparently no longer working hardware.

Projects like this get me very excited. So many people have issues with the software side of VR and issues never seem to get fixed as issues get overshadowed by new headset releases.

I could see the tinkering side of VR making people treat it a lot more seriously.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Hmm good to know! Thanks.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Don't buy index. New standalone (Deckard) is coming

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Have they hinted at a price? I feel like it's going to be double or triple the amount I'd like to spend

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

Hmmm that's the only thing. That could be an issue for you. Honestly your best bet is to get a meta headset and sideload everything and use a burner account

[–] Jackhammer_Joe 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Nothing from Meta / Facebook is something you should be looking for.

In fact: turn 180° and look exactly in the opposite direction

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

Is there a reason you say that though?

I feel that way myself due to how they kind snubbed Rift S users with software updates causing issues and not releasing the schematics for the cables but have they done much else specifically related to their hardware that would make you say that?

I feel like a lot of the creepy spying aspects of the headset could like be avoided.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Have you got an actual recommendation then?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

As far as I'm aware, your options for mid tier are Quest 3 or PSVR2 with the PC adaptor.

I haven't used either.

Quest 3 - if you buy a wifi 6 router that's dedicated to quest 3 streaming, you can supposedly do passable wireless using either the Steam app or Cordial Desktop on Quest. As the other commenter said, you might want to consider a third party headstrap.

PSVR2 - No wireless option but there's a cable (display port or HDMI - I'm not sure which) you plugin to your PC so the picture won't have artifacting etc. Unfortunately eye tracking isn't supported on PC. Also you won't get the passthrough stuff you were asking about.

Pico 4 - I dunno much about. It has a display port connector and can also do wireless but no idea what it's like or if it's still considered an option. Also, if you're avoiding Meta, I'm not sure byte dance is any better. I don't know what the future holds for their vr plans

Then I think we start going up in price.

There is supposed to be some Android VR headsets announced this year (like from Samsung) and there's also the possibility of whatever Valve is doing with deckard at the end of the year (but that's all rumour, leaks and speculation).

Personally, I'd really love to see what Valve are doing but maybe that's just my copium

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Virtual Desktop is pretty good for streaming to the Q3 too. Honestly the biggest area of improvement that Q3 could have is in the battery department. But as with anything wireless there's always power banks.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I wonder how it would do coupled with a 20,000 mAh power bank in a fanny pack.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 1 points 4 hours ago

The important part is how much power it can deliver continuously.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Haha oops.I definitely meant to type "virtual desktop" and not "cordial desktop".

/Facepalm

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah that makes sense lmao

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Quest 3 - if you buy a wifi 6 router that’s dedicated to quest 3 streaming, you can supposedly do passable wireless using either the Steam app or Cordial Desktop on Quest. As the other commenter said, you might want to consider a third party headstrap.

That wouldn't be much of an issue though if I was plugging the headset directly into a USB C port on my PC though would it?

Personally, I’d really love to see what Valve are doing but maybe that’s just my copium

Same. I feel like Valve handled the Steam Deck really well with it's specs/price point and their community support. I imagine their next headset will be a continuation of that for the most part but I feel like it's going to be even more expensive than the Index and targeting the high end market

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Personally, I would rather get wireless working if I had a Quest 3 for PC VR because it's a nice trade off for the compression. I've seen quite a few comments complaining about the lack of display port on Quest 3 due to the compressed video but I don't know if that's a vocal minority or not.

I used to have a wireless Vive Pro and I do miss the wireless a bit.

I don't think Valve will go as premium this time. I think they've learned their lesson. I think the reason the Index costs so much is simply the lighthouse tech. Look at how much the base stations cost and how much the vive tracking pucks cost. Based on leaks/speculation (so, grain of salt) their current prototypes are using camera based tracking - which in theory, tells me they're price sensitive

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Personally, I would rather get wireless working if I had a Quest 3 for PC VR because it’s a nice trade off for the compression. I’ve seen quite a few comments complaining about the lack of display port on Quest 3 due to the compressed video but I don’t know if that’s a vocal minority or not.

But would there be compression issues when using a USB C cable though? That's what I'm wondering.

I used to have a wireless Vive Pro and I do miss the wireless a bit.

How does that work exactly? Someone else recommended the Vive Pro 2 and I was wonder how it was tethered or how it would work wirelessly. Would you rely on an add-on that has a built in battery?

I don’t think Valve will go as premium this time. I think they’ve learned their lesson. I think the reason the Index costs so much is simply the lighthouse tech. Look at how much the base stations cost and how much the vive tracking pucks cost. Based on leaks/speculation (so, grain of salt) their current prototypes are using camera based tracking - which in theory, tells me they’re price sensitive

From the rumors does it seem like it will be close to as premium as the Index? If there's some hope for a happy middle ground maybe it would be a decent idea just for me to hold off.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

I don't have experience with the quest 3 so I can't tell you for sure, I've just seen people complain about it.

The Vive Pro uses fresnel lenses and comparatively is quite a bulky headset and is really showing it's age. The Vive Pro 2, I have not tried it but the wireless adaptor can't stream native resolution. Additionally it is still a very bulky headset. The wireless adaptor for these headsets is pretty expensive too. It's also a bit fiddly with batteries and stuff though it worked for me. I'd be willing to bet it's be out of your price range based on your post. The industry seems to have just decided that wifi streaming is the way to go for wireless, particularly over wifi 6 or 6e.

Talking about more things I don't have experience with, you could try checking out things like Pimax but they're also expensive and possibly fiddly.

In my opinion, there is no perfect option for VR at the moment and there aren't a lot of options at the low end. Quest 3 seems like a good all rounder. PSVR2 is an alternative with few pros (including if you have a ps5) and a few cons (such as being bulky and I have seen some discussions on which has a better picture).

I really just want to see what Valve does.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 3 points 2 days ago

I personally don't find the issue with compression to be that big but I do recognize that it exists, of course.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Well I've got a Q3 lying around and it works with windows. Sure. It's not the top of the line, since it doesn't have a direct connection with the PC hardware. It didn't play well with Linux when I last checked but that might've changed. And no lighthouses so that's another one for you.

The strap that comes with the Q3 is abysmal. A horrible thing that feels like someone is clamping your head and pulling your hair. I've changed mine.

The Quest is a good product. I haven't had any issues with Meta on that front. I'm not the most privacy minded person but I do keep it in a container when it's not used.

The pass through mode is totally passable. It wasn't when I got the headset, but they've done a lot to improve it. It's not 1:1, of course. But when I first got it, reading the phone screen was impossible. Now it isn't.

Honestly the best part of the Q3 is the lenses. But they're probably available elsewhere.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

How would you say your experience has been using the software? Any issues with the UI or updates for example?

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Not a single issue tbh. I like the experience. Hand tracking is wonky in low light, but that's expected. Updates are frequent enough, and I haven't had to reset the headset other than when I myself set it to dev mode bad wanted to return to normal.

[–] JaddedFauceet 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Interesting. I'll have to check it out. It's been a while.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If you set it up using Envision, it's pretty simple. You will have to use a headset with ADB enabled, which.on Meta headsets, involves making your account a developer account.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 2 points 3 days ago

I've done that once, so I'll be able to do so again!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If your main goal is to play games on PC, you should not buy a Meta Headset because you will have lags and artifacts by doing so (even with a cable). It’s more suitable for playing games from the Meta ecosystem.

I am not much aware of all PCVR options, I bought a Valve Index a few years ago and I do not feel the need to change it (though I admit I will likely buy the future Valve headset if they release one, but it’s not like I would buy it day one, just to get an upgrade).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I would consider the index as well if it wasn't nearly double what I was hoping to spend

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Get the Valve Index used or refurbished, the price Valve charges for that thing new is crazy. I know Tundra Labs sells refurb units, though local marketplaces are probably the best route IMO. Also, the Index is one of the best supported Linux headsets there is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

Do people often have issues buying used headsets? My fear would be finding a scratch on the lens or something after someone stored or cleaned it incorrectly.

With refurbished headsets I imagine a lot have warranties at least.