All CEO's are going to take from this is they need to use popular IP's to make their low effort trash.
this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2024
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I was going to say "Marvel License".
If it were just 33 generic characters, or 33 comic book characters nobody ever heard of (Astro City anyone? Anyone?) it would have tanked just like Concord.
But, at the same time, it CAN'T JUST be the license. It's also free to play.
Look at Marvel Midnight Suns, which wasn't F2P, had the license, from what I'm TOLD was a decent game, but didn't go anywhere:
A far better comparison is the Avengers game before that, which is a genre that the average person is more likely to play in the first place. Customers will avoid a game that they don't want, even if hundreds of millions of dollars was spent on it.
from what I’m TOLD was a decent game, but didn’t go anywhere:
It's an amazing game.
The cards were a great way to handle combat, it was just a lot of new ideas, and the story parts slowed it down. If running around the abbey was something that could be turned off as an option and everything handled on a menu splash screen it would have done even better.
A decent core game with huge amounts of annoying crap wrapped around it.
See, I'm just not a deckbuilder. The last time I tried was on an IP I had otherwise spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours on... and hated every minute of the card system.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online_Episode_III:_C.A.R.D._Revolution
If Midnight Suns had been in the style of the old Diablo-ish Marvel games, I would have been there day 1.
Not much to say about the wider conversation here, but I just want to chime in to support your position. I read that article you posted, and I was kinda chuckling to myself at the author, who seems to be at least a casual fan of deckbuilder type games, arguing that the devs are wrong, and that the cards were not a barrier to entry. Meanwhile, I'm sitting over here, looking at the copy I have in my steam library which has never been touched, specifically because I heard it was a deckbuilder and immediately lost all interest. This despite the otherwise fairly positive reception the game got, and the hundreds of hours I've spent in Firaxis style tactical strategy games.
Sometimes I wish I knew why I have such a mental block about deckbuilding. I think the layers of strategy become too abstract for me to visualize what I'm trying to pull off, and it feels artificial in a way that rubs me the wrong way. Even if a 3 turn cool down on an ability is no less artificial, it doesn't irk me in the same way.
And for the record, I didn't buy the game just to never play it, its a family library copy! I'm not that wasteful.
I saw the trailer and was interested and when I found out it was card based went "Nope!"
I just see all card games like this:
Eh, it's not really a "deck builder" like people think.
Like, it sounds weird because there's literally cards and you select a deck for each player...
But just move past the cards/deck and think of it as a loadout and selecting what abilities you want each character to have. And the upgrade system really lets you fine tune what abilities you can use.
It's a small piece of the gameplay, but the randomness it forces rather than just always using OP moves gives it a lot of replayability.
So, I don't think the card mechanic was a problem other than turning people off before they tried it. I think it went free on PSN a while ago, and I was really hoping it would make it take off.
It's a small piece of the gameplay, but the randomness it forces rather than just always using OP moves gives it a lot of replayability.
This was basically the reason for me to never play it again (with the dreadfully poorly made "socializing" part a close second). I absolutely hate when my strategy has to be based on randomness and I need to hope for a good card to do the thing I want.
It's absolutely a deckbuilding game, just not a roguelite deckbuilder.
A lot of good games can be based on randomness. Being in control of the deck building means that your choices shape the odds. I used to have a similar viewpoint as you, but learned to really embrace randomness and the design challenges it presents.
I say this as a Magic player, where even the greatest players in the world can get screwed or flooded on mana. The possibility of screw/flood increases the importance of card draw/card selection, makes the playability of low-mana cards more important, and makes heavy color pip investment, multiple colors, and higher mana costs a very serious concern.
I agree that's it's a valid game mechanic. It's just one I don't like.
I really liked midnight suns. I enjoyed picking what cards to use. I enjoyed the gameplay where you can use your cards, environment, and movement to win effectively. I even liked the socializing parts. Yes, I want to play videogames with Spiderman and hang out with Captain marvel.
The cards were unique, but not at all what I wanted. Rivals abilities are what I was looking for in that game, but I know it's just a different genre.
Nah, Midnight Suns was not good. They had some good ideas in the actual game play, but the other 80% of it dragged everything down.
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It's free
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The gameplay is good.
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The characters are designed well
If Concord had done two of those things, it would have been fine instead they'd didn't even do one of them...
"Free" wouldn't have saved Concord. They had basically no interest in the game from the time it was revealed, and the open beta player numbers supported that. Putting a price tag on the game was an attempt to bleed out less profusely.
Yeah concord was"free" during open beta and lost users. It was just unappealing all around
I heard the gameplay wasn't awful, it just wasn't stellar either.
I got as far as seeing it on a store shelf, going "Huh, I didn't hear about this one..." (Googles) "Live Service!" - "Right then, I'm out!"
I got as far as seeing it on a store shelf
It's on shelves?
Most paid games don't have a physical release because it adds costs these days, it's surprising they have physical copies.
Is it just a free disc that tells the hardware to download it? Or some kind of collector's edition with extra stuff?
But give it a try, quick play is quick play and you won't get a good team comp, but I got to silver in ranked and people know what they're doing most of the time. You won't always get two tanks, but two heals and a tank is the worst I've seen.
It WAS! For like a week! LOL.
Edit for clarity Concord was in stores.
I feel like this is all marketing BS, and just shitting on the garbage that was Concord to gain more eyeballs
I didn’t even hear of concord until it was dead, whereas marvel you can’t escape from hearing about.
We’ll see if Rivals survives. It’s completely unbalanced so far.
Stupid seasonal buff that make some healers heals 15% more, dps deal 20% more damage and tanks have 15% more HP. They need to remove this idea ASAP
It's a really weird choice to not have the first season without these modifiers if they're dead set on having them.
Oh wow I hadn't heard about this. Please don't.
I mean, it's certainly one way to have "flavor of the month" characters without actually having to rebalance things monthly.
It's really not, everyone is just really strong. It's like Paladins where everyone is a monster if you learn to play them.
Some characters are weaker and others require more effort, but every character has a counter pick that wrecks them, so team comp is important for different roles at different times. Sometimes you need a backline assassin, sometimes it needs to be a dive character. I really like it since it forces less onetrick play and actual team coordination.
It failed because their business model was very stupid. Paying a hefty price for what should have been a F2P with paid cosmetics was it's doom.
However, I bet it would have had a hard time anyways even if they did everything right.