this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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(page 3) 25 comments
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[–] kitnaht -5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

I think you'd be awfully surprised calling yourself "as left as they come" on here. There are some people who are so far out in left field that they come back around on the right again. Lemmy is full of anarcho-communists and people who believe that ownership of property is akin to murder.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

The world won't be any better if you don't. The only difference is what you'd feel about it yourself.

[–] alquicksilver 139 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Anyone voluntarily participating in the US for-profit prison system is, almost assuredly, a problematic person with questionable morals.

It's literally making money off of slavery. If you would not be proud to call yourself a slave-owner, I'd hope you would also not be proud to invest in slavery.

Royal "you," by the way. Not OP, specifically.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. There is no ethical investing, either.

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[–] Lauchs 10 points 1 week ago (6 children)

In a culture where almost everyone is wearing clothes made by children working 14 hour days who occasionally burn to death because fire exits would cost too much,, this seems to me, an odd line to draw.

Might just be me but I'm not sure I see much of a difference between slave investor and wearing slave labour.

[–] Lost_My_Mind 59 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I think the difference is, you can CHOOSE not to invest in slave labor. If 100% of the clothes are made by slave labor, what are the other options? Be naked? You'll get arrested, and now by US law, YOU'RE the slave labor.

Whereas nothing is forcing you to invest in slavery.

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[–] alquicksilver 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't disagree with you that slave labor is bad regardless of who, what, where, how. I disagree, however, that there's not much difference between purchasing products you need and investing in a business.

Some folks can't afford anything except cheap clothing/household goods from overseas, where they are often made in sweatshops with slave and/or child labor; it's not their fault that they can't afford to purchase ethical products. No one needs to invest in a business, though, so choosing to invest in one that deals in slavery is that investor's fault.

For those of us who can afford ethically-sourced/made items, though, I agree that it's quite similar. I have no excuses other than people are, as a whole, not good to each other. :(

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Short answer: Yes

Long Answer: Good lord. Yes, it would be something a bad person would do.

In effect, any gains you make will be blood money. Have fun with that on your conscience.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yes.

Investing to make money off of other's suffering is never justified.

You may as well scream "FUCK YOU, GOT MINE" a little louder.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"Would I be a bad person if I loaned the neighborhood pusher some money to re-up his fentanyl package?"

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[–] njm1314 30 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Thought so. Just making sure.

[–] brucethemoose 2 points 1 week ago

I would also ask yourself if this is beneficial at all.

Look at their historical prices. Investors have already bought into this.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I don't think so - the stock market is extremely detached from fundraising in the modern world and if that company decided to fundraise it'll mostly do so on the back of mutual funds and uni endowments.

I personally find divestment is a pretty ineffective personal action in terms of individuals.

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[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The question of morality in investments is not absolute; it depends on how one frames responsibility and agency.

Markets are amoral tools. Financial markets operate independently of moral judgments. When individuals invest in an industry, they are not necessarily endorsing its practices but recognizing an opportunity within existing systems. One can argue that targeting an investment does not equate to creating or exacerbating the problems within that industry.

The existence of private prisons and deportation schemes reflects systemic issues, not individual investors. Policies and demand for incarceration stem from government choices and public sentiment. As such, targeting investors as "bad people" shifts focus away from the policymakers and institutions enabling these systems.

Some may justify these investments pragmatically: by securing financial stability, individuals can later support progressive causes, donate to charities, or fund organizations fighting for systemic change. For example, an investor might use the returns to support immigrant advocacy groups or lobby for prison reform.

There is algo "Separation of Investment and Values". Not every decision must align with one’s ideological framework. People often compartmentalize their personal lives from their professional or financial strategies. A leftist could rationally engage in capitalism as a survival mechanism within an inescapable capitalist framework while still advocating for systemic change.

Many industries—tech, energy, or agriculture—have problematic practices, from exploitative labor to environmental harm. Singling out private prisons overlooks the broader complexity of investing in any sector. Most portfolios inadvertently include industries with ethical concerns, such as fossil fuels or fast fashion.

Defending this investment as not inherently immoral hinges on the premise that financial actions alone do not define someone’s character. Morality lies in how individuals balance their actions, mitigate harm, and contribute positively to society. However, ethical investments often require introspection and alignment with long-term values. While investing in private prison contractors can be defended on pragmatic or systemic grounds, it’s worth questioning whether the financial gain outweighs the potential ethical compromise.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Hmmm, are you saying workers are alienated from each other via the market? Social relations are mediated by commodities and money??

I swear I've heard this somewhere before...

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